New Chapter for TWOW

[Boaz]

I've long suspected that Lord Robert is not Jon Arryn's son. Obviously, Lysa's always carried a torch for Littlefinger and they were both living in KL, but she might have dared to take other lovers in an effort to give Jon a son. If Jon is not Robert's father, Varys will know. I personally do not think Littlefinger cares a whit if Robert is his son. Robert is merely a piece to be played.

If Baelish's lodestone is the throne (I still wonder if his family is descended from the Targaryens), then he'll need a physically and mentally healthy true born heir.

Another point I forgot to make earlier was in regards to the tapestries. In AFFC, Cersei mentioned to the Small Council how Littlefinger was the only one not asking her for money and men... all he asked for were some old tapestries. Nestor Royce is now the owner of these royal Targaryen tapestries. Nestor is Littlefinger's guard dog... bought and paid for. Littlefinger gave Nestor's son hereditary title to the Arryn castle at the foot of the mountain. The tapestries give Nestor's hall a regal air. He has a former royal Arryn castle furnished with royal Targaryen art and he's hosting Robert's great tourney. All this screams prosperity to all the nobles attending the tourney. They see how Nestor prospers and they know who to see if they want to prosper as well.

Also, do not think that just because Shadrich is small of stature that he is small in spirit, intellect, or ambition. He proved in AFFC to see through Creighton's and Brienne's tales. The fact that we know he's hunting Sansa and just happens to become an acquaintance of Alayne is not a coincidence. He suspects, if he does not already know, that Alayne is Sansa. His quandary will be how to abscond with Sansa or else go back to KL and try to sell the info to Cersei, Qyburn, or Mace... Or mayhaps find employment as an agent for Baelish.

Regarding Rickon... If Robb has a son to inherit and the Starks return to power and Rickon can be found, then Rickon can either take the black or serve as a vassal. If the Starks are somehow returned to preeminence in the North, then the Boltons and Karstarks must be defeated. Do you imagine the victors (the Umbers, the Mormonts, the Reeds, the Manderlys, Sansa, Arya, Jon, Rickon, the Blackfish, etc...) will allow any male Boltons or Karstarks to live? No.

The Karstarks are a cadet branch of House Stark founded by one Karlon Stark. He was given land and title by his father or elder brother as a reward and for the purpose of giving a close ally to House Stark. Karlon Stark... Karstark. Prepare yourself for the rise of House Ristark. Rickon Stark... Ristark.

The Karstarks and Boltons rebelled against their liege lord... deadly consequences for failure. We all know the song...

And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that Lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Reading about what Tywin actually did to the Reynes gives that song a whole new meaning.

It seems like Shadrich knows who Alayne really is. I will be interested in finding out what becomes of Shadrich. If he tries to blackmail Littlefinger it's going to go bad for him.

Sansa is definitely becoming a more interesting character.

 

[Narkalui]

She's going to murder someone in this book. Either Robin or Middlefinger, but one of them...

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Or Harry.

I doubt she will kill middlefinger. Right now she is learning a lot from him, but she isn't hiding how smart she is. It is great to see her scheming and figuring out plots and using her wits, but at the same time, she runs to Petyr every time she does or says something clever, looking for his approval like a little girl. If she wants to truly start playing the game, she needs to hold her cards closer to her chest, and maybe she will if she figures out how Petyr has been using her, and how he betrayed Ned and got him killed. but will she kill him outright? I doubt it. with a Mentor like middlefinger, she would be more likely to try to manipulate him and use him. Or betray him and destroy everything he has built.

Robin on the other hand... I could see her smothering him in his sleep. Especially if she gets hitched to Harry, she might want to speed things up to become the lady of the vale.

 

[Koopa]

i dont think sansa has gone so deep as to smother sweetrobin. she might be considered an accomplice if sweetrobin does end up dying, which i really doubt will happen. You're not wrong on sansa going to littlefinger for everything, however it's kinda understandable with her not knowing what we know. All she knows is that littlefinger saved her, loved her mother and is helping her now. Plus it's sometimes hard to remember with how the chapter and some storylines are going (and maybe grrm wants us to forget thus blurring the agegapskipthingie) but Sansa is 13, perhaps by the time of the chapter 14. Complete independance from a 14year old would be kinda strange.

 

[Narkalui]

I think she's going to spike his poppy milk with tears of Lys and let the maester administer it, he'll just have a fit, be given some poppy milk and just die. People will assume it was the fit which killed him....

 

[Boaz]

Sansa is not yet to the pint of killing for the reasons of power or expediency. I do think Middlefinger may put her in the position of killing (or more likely enlisting a hitman) for the purpose of self preservation. If Robert either unknowingly has evidence of Lysa's murder or Alayne's identity and could disclose the information to Yohn Royce, then he's a threat who must be dealt with. Robert sees Harry as a threat and he may act to keep Alayne to himself... A wedding... A bedding... Sansa would take steps to prevent it. I can easily see Middlefinger letting Sansa solve the problem for herself... thus dirtying her hands and keeping her under his influence.

As she becomes a more active player, Sansa will build her own group of confidants, swords, and allies. Mayhaps Shadrich will be one of these. He has to know escaping with an unwilling Sansa is nigh impossible... and I assume he's beginning to hear the news of Cersei's downfall. With a higher risk and lesser reward, he may choose to work for Sansa... or really working for Baelish while Sansa thinks he's working for her. Remember he's done this before... Slynt, Dontos, the Kettleblacks...

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Sansa is only beginning to develop from her passive position. She isn't so passive anymore, but I wouldn't label her as an active player. I'd say she went from being passive and blind to the game over observing of the game without an actual interest or ability to play to the position where she is learning about the game while attempting to figure out how to play it. It will be a bit longer before she grows into the role of a proper player and that is still only a possibility which depends on what exactly Middlefinger wants from her (aside from what he obviously wants from her).

 

[Deɑth.]

The Karstarks and Boltons rebelled against their liege lord... deadly consequences for failure. We all know the song...

And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that Lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.

Finally someone that understands me.

 

[Zulkuss]

Regarding Rickon... If Robb has a son to inherit and the Starks return to power and Rickon can be found, then Rickon can either take the black or serve as a vassal. If the Starks are somehow returned to preeminence in the North, then the Boltons and Karstarks must be defeated. Do you imagine the victors (the Umbers, the Mormonts, the Reeds, the Manderlys, Sansa, Arya, Jon, Rickon, the Blackfish, etc...) will allow any male Boltons or Karstarks to live? No.

The Karstarks are a cadet branch of House Stark founded by one Karlon Stark. He was given land and title by his father or elder brother as a reward and for the purpose of giving a close ally to House Stark. Karlon Stark... Karstark. Prepare yourself for the rise of House Ristark. Rickon Stark... Ristark.

I see that you are a bloodthirsty one. But not so fast! Not all of the Karstarks deserves to die!
Technically, the only bad blood comes from Arnolf Karstark and his spawn. Well, Rickard simply gave in to revenge, which is why he disobeyed Robb. And with one of the sample chapters, Arnolf, Arthor and Arthor's two sons were brought before Stannis, who already wanted them executed in incoming future, while Cregan was already captured by Jon.
But that leaves us with Alys, daughter of Rickard, which married Sigorn, Magnarr of Thenn of newly formed House Thenn, and Harrion Karstark, eldest son of Rickard, which is a hostage of Iron Throne. Actually, Armolf's seeming alliance with Stannis was for that Iron Throne would have Harrion executed. So they are doing most of this for their personal gain within House Karstark.

And come on, Ristark? In the Wolf's Den, which is located in White Harbor, was once located House Greystark. Though those bastards joined Boltons in rebellion against main Starks. With Shaggydog's fur in mind, I would rather see him as Blackstark of Skagos. Though Lord Rickon Stark the Cannibal sounds better than any posthumous son of Robb.

 

[Knott]

After reading the sample Chapter of Sansa's, I am really curious as to what the family name of the Gulltown merchants that married the Corbrays is (possibly the Gulltown Arryns??), and also. Who is Harry the Heirs, heir?
Between Lyn Corbray looking for somebody to kill, Sistermen who are bad horsemen, Littlefingers obsession with Catelyn/ Sansa and Harry waiting in the wings for a lordship.....
Harry the Heirs days are numbered, and so are the Lords Declarant Alliance.

Just a thought from a long time fan/ post reader, who hasn't been on this site in years.

 

[Boaz]

Zulkuss, welcome.

I don't know that I ever said the Karstarks deserved to die. But like any family consolidating it's power over a large territory, rivals (even potential ones) are almost always dealt with ruthlessly. On her own, Dany would never have sought to unseat Robert Baratheon, but Viserys, Drogo, Robert's assassins, Jorah, the warlocks, Quaithe, BFS, and other characters and circumstances have led her to seek her birthright... that's why he wanted her dead. If Young Griff is really Aegon VI (or Illyrio's son, Perkin Warbeck, or whomever), then he might have lived his life in obscurity except for the meddling of Varys, Illyrio, and Griff. A male claimant does not have to seek to be a threat in order to be one. I'm saying the Starks will sit easier at Winterfell if the Karstarks are totally gone... and replaced by the Blackstarks. I like your idea better than the Ristarks. I just figured they'd be ristarking a number of northern families.

 

[Zulkuss]

Well, with the actual heir of Karstarks being in custody and his fate is yet to be unveiled, anything can happen with Karstarks. But given how House Thenn was formed, I would rather give Karhold to them and let Blackstarks take the Dreadfort. Especially that I rather expect Rickon have some roasted Bolton.

 

[Narkalui]

I rather like the idea of Rickon becoming King of Winter and Jon Snow becoming LORD Blackstark of The Crossing, of course after the Frey's rip each other to shreds in the wake of Lord Walder's long overdue death.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

It is nice to dream, but Martin was never one to fulfill our dreams. XD

 

[Narkalui]

Indeed

 

[Knott]

I rather like the idea of Rickon becoming King of Winter and Jon Snow becoming LORD Blackstark of The Crossing, of course after the Frey's rip each other to shreds in the wake of Lord Walder's long overdue death.

Not so sure about Rickon becoming King of Winter, since he'll probably end up as Lord of Winterfell, after Bran, if Manderly and Robett Glover have their way.
As for John, hard to be a Blackstark when he's going to end up as an "Icefyre" or "Whitearyen".

Now as for the Freys tearing themselves apart once the Late lord Frey passes on. I almost hopes he hangs on till almost the end of the series now. GRRM is doing a good job of removing the Freys piecemeal, (like sliceing a pie). I'd like to see Walder Frey die with the realization that most, if not all of his slimy, murderous brood has pre-deceased him!!

 

[Koopa]

not all of the freys are bad, perwyn and olyvar seemed good enough ppl.
I prefer Snow, but i could live iwth Icefyre if need be, also cause that name reminds me of Robin Hobb's black dragon.
Whitearyen though sounds rascist, and i'd have to veto that. ~~

 

[Narkalui]

I'm a whitarian in that I only eat parsnips and cauliflower . But yeah it's two syllables when broken apart sound like they're taken from some Nazi book. Eugh!

 

[Knott]

Well, on my attempt on the fly to create a last name for Jon, in keeping with the flavor of Westeros, I seem to have a "maybe", and a "no, doesn't work at all"................(Snow----White + 1/2 Targaryen= not so good a sounding combination). Ah well.
Maybe I'll retire while I'm ahead of the game. I'll just stick to cheering on the death of most of the Freys, (Perwyn and Olyvar excluded), and waiting to see what happens to FAegon once his auntie arrives to seize their throne!