Gratuitous Rape in Fantasy novels

[Glitch]

We'll have to wait until I write it to see if it's well handled or not. It's not the core of the story, but neither do I think I could pull the scene without leaving a void in the story. I could try and think of another way to inflict mental torture on my character. The current idea does fit in well with the preceding events, time and place though.

 

[The Judge]

On a different note, one fairly well-known author once asked on Facebook if he should include the rape scene he was intending. One of the male posters suggested that he write it anyway, and if it didn't work once he'd written the book, he could simply remove it and there'd be no effect on the story. I said that you couldn't remove it, because if it was well-handled, the female protag would be scarred from it in one or more terrible ways, that it would define who she became, but the men ignored my post. And in the end the author said he'd just remove the rape if it didn't fit once the book was finished.

I was going to suggest he's another one for the cricket bat remedial therapy, but to be fair to him he could remove it afterwards, provided that he then also made all the necessary changes to her character/behaviour thereafter. But somehow I doubt that's what he intended. Or what he actually did.

But just a small comment -- I don't think you can say it would define who the female protagonist became. I know women who have experienced sexual violence and although I can guess how it has affected them, in that I can ascribe certain personality traits to that violence, in no way would they be defined by it -- they are/were damaged, certainly, but that damage isn't the be all and end all of their existence.

And some women refuse to see themselves as victims after sexual violence and consequently make efforts to ensure it doesn't affect their lives. How successful they might be is a different matter, of course.

 

[Warren_Paul]

I also think there's an additional option:

(3) Rape used as a gratuitous plot device due to sloppy writing - especially committed by white male authors who never stop to question their own limited assumptions, and cannot write a female character as anything other than a sexualised object, or otherwise dependent on male validation, and have never heard of the Bechdel Test

I still regularly read http://requireshate.wordpress.com/ which is a trollish and extreme place - but very good at calling out some of the outright stupid writing that gets published, specifically with regards to violent misogyny and racial ignorance.

I get a bit annoyed when I read RH's what I'd consider racist term, 'privileged white male author' and would like to point out that ecchi anime/manga is way more perverted and objectifying of women than any books written by 'white males' I've read. If RH were to turn their attention in that direction, the writer would have a field day with it. The issue RH complains about isn't solely with the western world.

(2) the underlying idea that a raped woman is a ruined woman -- that whole loss of purity/ virginity thing, which used to mean your only choice was to turn your face to the wall and die as quietly as possible.

I'm not sure if this is because she was raped, or because she is no longer a virgin.

I wonder if this comes back to historical-based fiction where a large emphasis was placed on the virginity of the woman in regards to marital transactions? Virginity was seen as a prize of sorts, and when a woman lost their virginity they were no longer held in such a treasured place. Downton Abbey, episode 3, makes the perfect example. SPOILERS: A character chooses to have sex -- although it's debatable how far she actually went -- with a man in the hope that he would fall in love with her and propose. Instead he dies and she is left with a scandal of sleeping with a man outside of marriage as a consequence, and it hinders her chances at finding another suitable husband. She is limited to accepting the interest of a man who doesn't care she is no longer a virgin.

If the character had claimed rape though, I wonder if the outcome would still be the same?

 

[Erin99]

I was going to suggest he's another one for the cricket bat remedial therapy, but to be fair to him he could remove it afterwards, provided that he then also made all the necessary changes to her character/behaviour thereafter. But somehow I doubt that's what he intended. Or what he actually did.

Unfortunately not. The rape scene had such a little impact on the plot and character, he could remove it without changing his story. I like the sound of your cricket-bat therapy.

But just a small comment -- I don't think you can say it would define who the female protagonist became. I know women who have experienced sexual violence and although I can guess how it has affected them, in that I can ascribe certain personality traits to that violence, in no way would they be defined by it -- they are/were damaged, certainly, but that damage isn't the be all and end all of their existence.

And some women refuse to see themselves as victims after sexual violence and consequently make efforts to ensure it doesn't affect their lives. How successful they might be is a different matter, of course.

Very true. But some women never recover, sadly, and it ruins the one short life we all have. They're too scared to go out, they have no self-confidence, and they lose a lot more than sleep.

And if the others DO recover, it takes them a very, very long time, and they would always remember it in their deepest, darkest moments, I'd imagine.

Not a nice subject at all.

 

[Hex]

@WP -- got to be careful with that one. It's one of the most common arguments for horrible men -- and policemen -- not to act on accusations of rape. Because the woman is just using the accusation as a way of trying to avoid her own lewd acts.

Anyway, I expect being raped instead of voluntarily having sex would have made little difference until fairly recently. It's lack of purity that's the underlying issue. Once you've had sex, you're soiled if you're a woman.

Which is kind of one of the interesting points about this. Bear with me. Why is rape (the fate of women in so many fantasy stories) so much more traumatic than being beaten up (the fate of men)?

It's not the powerlessness -- if you're beaten unconscious, you're about as powerless as you can get. It's not even necessarily the physical damage -- being beaten can be as damaging.

It's the *violation*, which is more powerful -- irrespective of the powerlessness or the damage. I just wonder how much that is because society still has an expectation that sex is wildly significant for women and we're all conditioned (me too) to regard it as a defining feature of someone's life/ story. Is that because of what it is or because of societal expectations about purity?

It doesn't make it any less significant -- more so because no one is outside society so everyone ought to recognise how important it is.

(sorry if I'm not making much sense here, but I think there's something important somewhere in the waffling).

 

[allmywires]

Which is kind of one of the interesting points about this. Bear with me. Why is rape (the fate of women in so many fantasy stories) so much more traumatic than being beaten up (the fate of men)?

It's not the powerlessness -- if you're beaten unconscious, you're about as powerless as you can get. It's not even necessarily the physical damage -- being beaten can be as damaging.

It's the *violation*, which is more powerful -- irrespective of the powerlessness or the damage. I just wonder how much that is because society still has an expectation that sex is wildly significant for women and we're all conditioned (me too) to regard it as a defining feature of someone's life/ story. Is that because of what it is or because of societal expectations about purity?

I think it's because sex is our most private offering. (Most of us) give it only to people we love and trust. To have that violated in any way is a much more significant trauma that mere bodily injuries (Not meaning that physical assault is not psychologically damaging, which of course it can be). The same goes for men if they've been raped. It's the violent and non-consensual penetration that is the key to the violation, imo. It's not the purity aspect, though there clearly was once a big significance what with 'bridal purity' and that.

 

[Hex]

But it doesn't apply to men who've been raped by a woman, does it? Or does it (in fiction)?

One of the most horrible things about the girl on the Indian bus was not just that she was raped, but that they used an iron bar -- which killed her -- and that's not really rape. But calling it rape sounds much worse and more horrible than calling it a beating, even if, actually, what they did was worse than forced sex.

I do wonder if there's still an element of patriarchal -- "once a man has had sex with you, you are no longer pure and virginal and therefore you don't matter" going on, even if we're not aware of it.

 

[allmywires]

But it doesn't apply to men who've been raped by a woman, does it? Or does it (in fiction)?

Hmm, I suppose. I'm not well-read on female-male rape though, and not sure of the situations involved.

One of the most horrible things about the girl on the Indian bus was not just that she was raped, but that they used an iron bar -- which killed her -- and that's not really rape. But calling it rape sounds much worse and more horrible than calling it a beating, even if, actually, what they did was worse than forced sex.

I do wonder if there's still an element of patriarchal -- "once a man has had sex with you, you are no longer pure and virginal and therefore you don't matter" going on, even if we're not aware of it.

Well, actually, any kind of forced penetration is the definition of rape, so it should be called rape. I suppose if you look at the etymology of derogatory sex-based words: slag, whore, slut, etc, are all based on women who've had lots of sex. Whereas a man who's bedded plenty of women is a stud. There's definitely an element in society, yes, but I do think the rape thing is quite different.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Um, in terms of male rape vs women, as some have already alluded to, it is partially about control. Traditionally a male is the one who controls the sex act, when they are forced to submit it raises deep seated guilt around masculinity and roles. I am not saying it is worse, btw, that is often to do with the victim, their capacity to cope, their understanding of the act, support given, but it is very different in terms of the fall out.

But this is about portrayal and, if pushed, i would say sff as a genre is one of the worst for well realised stories about rape and its impact, for empowering women, and for a general acceptance that rape is a storyline that is accepted. This is partially due to fantasy, in particular, being often set in traditional societies i wonder if it is also about acceptance of the trope?

 

[Warren_Paul]

But it doesn't apply to men who've been raped by a woman, does it? Or does it (in fiction)?

There certainly is the physical effects to consider. A man being raped by a man, there is penetration. A woman being raped by a man, there is penetration. A man being raped by a woman, she is the one being penetrated, not him. But the psychological effects are still there. Something private being taken against your will, it doesn't matter how it happens, it was still taken against your will.

I do wonder if there's still an element of patriarchal -- "once a man has had sex with you, you are no longer pure and virginal and therefore you don't matter" going on, even if we're not aware of it.

I'd be almost certain that there was still an element present today. When you think about it, it wasn't all that long ago that bridal purity still mattered. Sex before marriage is something that has only in the last few decades started to become sociably acceptable (since the last moral cycle of the world), so I wouldn't be surprised if there were those out there who were still influenced by the way it used to be.

 

[Hex]

@amw -- depends who's defining it. UN, I think, still defines as intercourse, though WHO and FBI define as penetration -- does that mean a man forced to have sex with a woman isn't being raped?

@WP -- I suspect most of us are still influenced by the way it used to be. e.g. amw's list of words insulting a woman. Just because things seem to be changing it doesn't mean the underlying prejudices have really gone away.

 

[allmywires]

@amw -- depends who's defining it. UN, I think, still defines as intercourse, though WHO and FBI define as penetration -- does that mean a man forced to have sex with a woman isn't being raped?

True. It seems like there are a lot of potential grey areas in the law, ie according to Wikipedia Scotland only defines rape as being penetrated against your will by a penis, so technically by law only men can be rapists. Which is faintly ridiculous when you think about it.

 

[hopewrites]

as someone who has been raped I've been watching this thread with interest, and am pleased with the responses. I dont think that rape should be excluded from fiction just because it is a horrible thing to happen, and its good to know that most/some the people who are going forward with putting it in are doing their research into long-term effects and such.

I hate it when men think the woman actually enjoyed it, too. Makes me so angry.

If its in a longstanding relationship as a part of domestic violence its best to enjoy it as much as possible, though that isn't always much. But this makes it harder to get over later and is part of a larger Stockholm syndrome response of "well I'm in for the long haul with this guy I better do what will be least unpleasant and get it over with" and can change the definition of rape.

A friend of mine once said "rape is anything where you are not emotionally present for the sex act" to which I responded "well then I've only not been raped twice."

So it's important to know how the character defines rape when and if it happens.

I heard an argument once that hookers only get raped if they aren't paid. I cant see that as being true in any way. I can see how they could be raping themselves as a profession though. But that might just be my personal experiences twisting my perspective on how things could go.

And some women refuse to see themselves as victims after sexual violence and consequently make efforts to ensure it doesn't affect their lives. How successful they might be is a different matter, of course.

I've had to take a hard look at how I define rape in my life, and its tricky. Sometimes I want to agree with my friend, but that leaves one's partners open to unintentional rape, I mean if they are present and I"m not then is it my fault they raped me? Probably, especially if I wasn't honest enough to say so.

Or I could define it succumbing to someone else's unwanted advances, Date Rape sort of things. Then again, is it my fault they raped me? I'm the one who didn't stand up for myself after all.

Or is it just the times when I didn't want it and after expressing myself to be of such an opinion had my wishes disregarded?


Under any of these cases I would say that rape hasnt defined my life, although there is no escaping how it has shaped it. Since the first case was when I was ridiculously young (please dont ask how young, I'll answer and it would break your heart) it definitely shaped how I interacted with people from a young age. When I finally did come to sexual maturity the memory had been sufficiently repressed that I didnt understand how it was still shaping my interactions. Then later in life when the memory resurfaced and so much of my interactions and strange reactions became clear to me I had to admit that it really had happened and that it had shaped my life.

But something that shapes your life and something that defines your life are not the same thing. Something that defines your life holds all your focus and is where you put your energy. Something that shapes your life is something that changes the shape of your perspective, not necessarily something that changes what you look at.

We all have a chose in what we look at. Not always what we see. Not always in what we can do about it. But I think that not looking is the most tragic thing a person can do.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Hope, you are incredible.

 

[Hex]

Hope, you re incredible.

This.

You're amazing, hope.

 

[allmywires]

Thank you for sharing, hope. A very powerful read.

 

[Mouse]

If its in a longstanding relationship as a part of domestic violence its best to enjoy it as much as possible, though that isn't always much.

I very much meant in the predatory rape sense, rather than rape in a relationship way, which, as I've said, is different. (Though what I said does also apply)

 

[Warren_Paul]

Had another thought on this, and it's a difficult subject to talk about. But I think it should be pointed out that the body reacts against ones will. It doesn't matter if your male or female.

A man can get an erection against their will, and medically, an erection apparently isn't even required for ejaculation.

Victims of rape can get confused with their own body's reaction and think that they were a willing participant because their body got aroused, even though mentally they didn't want to have sex. There has been a disgusting trend in men's mentality in recent times that, 'you can't rape the willing,' and that they attribute the fact that the man got an erection to be that they were "willing" which is completely bogus.

You don't have to be willing to have an orgasm. It is all involuntary.


EDIT:

Thank you, Hope, for sharing that with us.

 

[Galacticdefender]

Had another thought on this, and it's a difficult subject to talk about. But I think it should be pointed out that the body reacts against ones will. It doesn't matter if your male or female.

A man can get an erection against their will, and medically, an erection apparently isn't even required for ejaculation.

Victims of rape can get confused with their own body's reaction and think that they were a willing participant because their body got aroused, even though mentally they didn't want to have sex. There has been a disgusting trend in SOME men's mentality in recent times that, 'you can't rape the willing,' and that they attribute the fact that the man got an erection to be that they were "willing" which is completely bogus.

You don't have to be willing to have an orgasm. It is all involuntary.


EDIT:

Thank you, Hope, for sharing that with us.

Come on, we're not all sexist ignorant pigs.



I will (probably) never write a rape scene, though I have hinted at rape. The only occasion I would write a rape scene would be to show the brutality of an antagonist or if the scene pushed the plot along in some way.

I don't think I would ever involve a protagonist in such a scene, because I don't think I could do it realistically. Really, why anyone would want to write something like that realistically is pretty messed up.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Rape as an involuntary action is a huge grey area, but i do believe most people know yes and no and it can be used, by both sexes. In terms of orgasm, i would hate to be the man who presents that as evidence in court.... Women can, given secretions, but .... You have all seen When Harry Met Sally?