Let's talk about sex...

[Greenwoody]

Hmm, stimulatingrolleyes topic Springs!

Recently read interesting web pg about attitutes to sex. Pointed out that on tv, extreme violence is the accepted norm & no-one bats an eyelid, viewer's desensitised, but for anything majorly sexual the networks are flooded with complaints. Which is a good point, bit disturbing a society where people are happy to sit back and watch people being shot and mutilated for entertainment, but are disgusted & outraged to see people performing a normal, natural act.

Just started watching Spartacus, must be about the most explicit sex on tv, gory too, a reminder in Roman days it was all just the norm. In pagan days, sex was a divine thing. Just in 'modern' times it's all taboo. Made me think why shouldn't we write/read about it. So why not start with a sex scene- go for it!

 

[Coragem]

Sex and violence are two great drivers of emotional intensity.

Although I'd be bored if a book contained nothing but sex and violence (I have a brain that needs intellectual stimulation) my preference is to have quite a bit of both.

Coragem.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Oh, and i don't think they read as erotica, much more hands off than that.

Technically, it's only erotica if it mentions certain elements explicitly, like lower parts, and uhh... secretions...

You could still have the entire scene with all the thoughts, feelings and emotions, and it would be okay.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Read Up The Line by Robert Silverberg. There is a sex scene early on, but it worldbuilds like no amount of infodumping could do.

 

[Montero]

I don't find sex to be essential to a book - relationships yes, sex no. There are plenty of human activities that rarely, or never, get a mention in books. Usually fortunately - e.g. going to the loo - so it doesn't have to all be mentioned!

An example of sex in sf that is at the start of the book - Tanya Huff, Valor's Choice. Starts with the morning after to be exact. It is also important as it introduces one of the alien races in the story who love having as much sex as they can get, with as many species as are up for it and emit pheromones that make them really attractive. Though most of the time when off their home planet they wear pheromone maskers.

Good fun military sf series by the way - several interesting alien races. Its one that's more about people than technology.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Read Up The Line by Robert Silverberg. There is a sex scene early on, but it worldbuilds like no amount of infodumping could do.

This is part of the reason it's there; the world is revealed during the scene, too.

I don't find sex to be essential to a book - relationships yes, sex no. There are plenty of human activities that rarely, or never, get a mention in books. Usually fortunately - e.g. going to the loo - so it doesn't have to all be mentioned!.

Mostly, i agree. So far, in three books I have one sex scene and all my betas agreed it was needed for the character arc, but it was in the last 15000 words of a sequel, and is pretty tame. I have no doubt the scene in the new wip has to be in the book, it is too central not to be, but more that I am worried -- was, I am less so now -- with opening with it. But, excuse the pun, it is where the action begins, it is what precipitates the events in the book. I shall endeavour to make it not too anatmoical, I think!

 

[Toby Frost]

I'd be very wary of starting a book with sex because it's extremely hard to write well. Sapkowski's The Last Wish begins with a sex scene, which is about the worst thing in it: partly because it's not the best writing in the book, and partly because it comes across as an attempt to be sensationalist. Which is a shame, because it's a good book.

 

[Montero]

For clarification - I'm not bothered by them, some are quite fun, if I don't like them I can flick the page over. Just noticed several people saying they thought they were relatively essential so wanted to say that I didn't.

 

[ctg]

I'd like to thank you springs for putting this up as it clarifies the fears I have for the scene at the first chapter in second interview, where Herbert ends up doing bum bum with Jane. So like with your thing one thing leads to another and as a result sex happens. And if it helps you at all the whole first book is kind of building up to the release of tension between the characters. So don't be afraid to write a proper sex scene in the book, but be afraid of what it might say you as a writer.

 

[TheTomG]

Comparing sex to going to the toilet because "we all do it" is not relevant. Going to the toilet doesn't motivate us, other than in the immediate of having to go when we have to go.

Sex motivates us to the point of shaping our lives - what we say, what we do, how we look, where we go, what we buy, and so on. Sex has caused wars, changed religions, been the seed of murders, shaped politics and more. Going to the toilet has not.

Hence, one can be worth including in a book, and one really is not. Not the same thing at all.

 

[prizzley]

I can't vote for any of those options because so much would depend on how the scenes are written --

And then I'd turn the pages to see how much more sex followed - or whether it's a case of "Enough already". But it could be a case of capturing my interest early.

 

[C J Jessop]

I chose the fourth option, but it depends on the scenes in question. I'd perhaps wonder if it was going to be a sex romp thinly disguised as sci-fi if the sex came in so early, but I'd give the book a chance to get going first and see how it read.

I'm not averse to sex in books, where necessary to further the plot or for character definition. As several people have said already, real people do have sex. But, in all honesty, if I want to read erotica I read erotica, not sci-fi.

 

[allmywires]

Comparing sex to going to the toilet because "we all do it" is not relevant. Going to the toilet doesn't motivate us, other than in the immediate of having to go when we have to go.

Sex motivates us to the point of shaping our lives - what we say, what we do, how we look, where we go, what we buy, and so on. Sex has caused wars, changed religions, been the seed of murders, shaped politics and more. Going to the toilet has not.

Hence, one can be worth including in a book, and one really is not. Not the same thing at all.

Really good post! Totally agree.

 

[Rolynd]

Anyone ever read Chris Bunch? Seer King, Something King, Warrior King.

I quite enjoyed the books, but there was a lot of sex that was completely pointless imo. At one stage he's in a relationship with two women, apart from making me jealous I failed to see the point. It added nothing to the story. Also lots of...um...well...bum sex not to put to finer point on it (hetero couples). Just weird and jarring.

 

[Ursa major]

Read Up The Line by Robert Silverberg. There is a sex scene early on, but it worldbuilds like no amount of infodumping could do.

So it's infohumping...?


(Or, as has been said of such scenes in Game of Thrones, it's sexposition.)

 

[HoopyFrood]

LOL, to both of those

 

[Parson]

I don't find sex to be essential to a book - relationships yes, sex no. There are plenty of human activities that rarely, or never, get a mention in books. Usually fortunately - e.g. going to the loo - so it doesn't have to all be mentioned!

An example of sex in sf that is at the start of the book - Tanya Huff, Valor's Choice. Starts with the morning after to be exact. It is also important as it introduces one of the alien races in the story who love having as much sex as they can get, with as many species as are up for it and emit pheromones that make them really attractive. Though most of the time when off their home planet they wear pheromone maskers.

Good fun military sf series by the way - several interesting alien races. Its one that's more about people than technology.

Ah! yes. Tanya Huff does do a lot of sex and sexual innuendo in the Valor series. I've not read any of the rest of her stuff to know if this is series specific or not. Personally, I found the stories quite good, but I did wonder if the sex was there just to "titillate." Perhaps that serves as a warning to you author sorts.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

One of the best SF short stories I have read in a long time was entirely about sex, and it was in F&SF magazine. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name or the author, and it's at home while I'm not, but it was a story that left me wishing I had thought of it and wondering why I hadn't.

The MC was a prostitute on a space station, catering to all the oddities of the aliens who passed through -- he or she (it was never specified) charged exorbitant rates and conducted intense research to provide exactly the necessary environment, behaviors and appendages or orifices required for each alien to achieve its mating. It was a thought-provoking, humorous, and intensely likable story, completely about sex, and yet in no way "titillating" (except possibly to some of those alien races).

I'll find it and post the author and title in case anyone wants it, and just for due credit.

 

[Boneman]

To Quote Mandy-Rice Davies: "Well he would say that, wouldn't he?" because my sex scene arrives on page seven of my current wip, though it's really skinny-dipping, and coitus interruptus just at entry level... I do have a much better one but that's at page 255, so a lot of word foreplay is occuring... Wasn't there some sex bits in Heinlein's 'Glory Road'?


Stupid word... lost my whole joke, because it wouldn't allow me to import a word I'd crossed through, which was just before 'arrived'

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I forgot about yours, Boneman. Points above, his has oodles more sex than mine does. (I almost said he had... but stopped in time!)

Um, thanks for all the responses, everyone, the funny ones, the thoughtful ones, and the downright entertaining... I think, judging by responses here and by a couple of early, very kind, readthroughs, I'm okay.

It's not titilating (or if it is it's very mild), it's less than 700 words for both scenes, and they're not toooo rushed. (Might need a bit more build up, but that's okay for a first draft.)

Phew. Soon, I will write something that's normal and has a nice niche. If only I could get an idea for such a thing.