Let's form a crackpot theory together

[The Imp]

THE WIKI OF ICE AND FIRE STATES YES IMP!

Ser Meryn is present at the Red Keep when Queen Cersei completes her walk of penance.[15] He guards the Hand of the King's apartments in Maegor's Holdfast on the night of Ser Kevan Lannister's death.[16]

This might actually make sense

 

[joshrackley]

But remember that Varys doesn't really need to use the doors that everyone knows about. Isn't there a scene in CoK where he basically just appears in Tyrion's chamber (the Hand's chambers) and then after Varys leaves Tyrion spends a long time trying to figure out how he got in?

 

[The Imp]

But remember that Varys doesn't really need to use the doors that everyone knows about. Isn't there a scene in CoK where he basically just appears in Tyrion's chamber (the Hand's chambers) and then after Varys leaves Tyrion spends a long time trying to figure out how he got in?

Very true.

 

[Keebs411]

True varys doesnt need to use the " normal doors" he goes in secret ways, how ever wouldnt it be handy to have some one gaurding the main " normal door" also serving as a look out to make sure that no one ( who isnt supposed to be there or arrive) surprisingly show up and walk in on somthing they were not supposed to see.... hmmm like mia varys killing kevan Lannister? Varys doesnt need any looks outs or gaurds to prevent anyone from entering thru a secret passge but it should would help to have one standing at the main entrance/ exit everyone else uses

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Well, I think that Trant = Syrio makes some sense. After all, there is enough ambiguity about who survives the duel between the two. Knowing GRRM, the one we think survived the duel might indeed be a FM.

The FM were hired by Illyrio to pave the way for Daenarys' return! "Syrio" posed as a dancing master (First sword of Braavos? Who in Westeros could be bothered to check the veracity of that statement?) when Ned Stark was looking for one in order to get close to the Hand. But when he was killed by the intrigues of the court and psychopath Joffrey, he figured that he needed a new disguise.

Who is closer to the ruler than the Hand? The Kingsguard! So "Syrio" died in combat with Trant, while Trant's identity was taken by the FM. Bam, instant access to the king while having a plausible reason to be there!

Then as for Varys...I believe he orchestrates the efforts of pro Targaryen parties.

Why did Varys meet with Illyrio? Progress report, of course!

Of course, that would again lead to the age old question: Why is Illyrio so interested in the Targaryens? Is it truly the money that he is interested in?

Remember, Tyrion talked to Illyrio in aDwD and Illyrio replied:

Not all that a man does is done for gain. Believe as you wish, but even fat old fools like me have friends, and debts of affection to repay

Perhaps somewhere in their past, Illyrio and Varys might have come across a Targaryen that did something for them. And so they feel loyal to the Targaryens.

 

[The Imp]

Well, I think that Trant = Syrio makes some sense. After all, there is enough ambiguity about who survives the duel between the two. Knowing GRRM, the one we think survived the duel might indeed be a FM.

The FM were hired by Illyrio to pave the way for Daenarys' return! "Syrio" posed as a dancing master (First sword of Braavos? Who in Westeros could be bothered to check the veracity of that statement?) when Ned Stark was looking for one in order to get close to the Hand. But when he was killed by the intrigues of the court and psychopath Joffrey, he figured that he needed a new disguise.

Who is closer to the ruler than the Hand? The Kingsguard! So "Syrio" died in combat with Trant, while Trant's identity was taken by the FM. Bam, instant access to the king while having a plausible reason to be there!

Then as for Varys...I believe he orchestrates the efforts of pro Targaryen parties.

Why did Varys meet with Illyrio? Progress report, of course!

Of course, that would again lead to the age old question: Why is Illyrio so interested in the Targaryens? Is it truly the money that he is interested in?

Remember, Tyrion talked to Illyrio in aDwD and Illyrio replied:



Perhaps somewhere in their past, Illyrio and Varys might have come across a Targaryen that did something for them. And so they feel loyal to the Targaryens.

Good post. Also, don't forget about Illyrio's wife, who may very well have been a Targ, or at least have some Targ blood.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Which one? Illyrio had two wives. One was a "pillowhouse worker" called Serra, the other was an unnamed daughter of the cousin of the Prince of Pentos.

The Targaryens were in power during Illyrio's youth, so there's no real reason for a Targ to be either a "pillowhouse worker" or even be in Pentos.

Sure, we can have our own crackpot theory that makes little sense but we need to be a little more convincing on topics on which information is easily attainable

Edi:

Why not make a crackpot theory that ...Illyrio is actually Gerion Lannister?!

 

[The Imp]

Which one? Illyrio had two wives. One was a "pillowhouse worker" called Serra, the other was an unnamed daughter of the cousin of the Prince of Pentos.

The Targaryens were in power during Illyrio's youth, so there's no real reason for a Targ to be either a "pillowhouse worker" or even be in Pentos.

Sure, we can have our own crackpot theory that makes little sense but we need to be a little more convincing on topics on which information is easily attainable

Edi:

Why not make a crackpot theory that ...Illyrio is actually Gerion Lannister?!

I thought the passage containing the description Serr'as picture was clearly additional evidence that Illyrio's motives might go beyond the "normal" greed and power.

As for crackpot theories, i like the one that says that Trant was Syiro and is a Faceless man. it feels neat and clean and IMO fits the facts of the story and the way we know that GRRM writes.

Riddle me this Batman why would Illyrio ne3ed to travel to King's Landing to meet in person with Varys? Events were moving quickly, and it must be assumed that illyrio started his voyage to KL well before Eddard's series of botched little adventure's while being Hand. The idea of him even coming to KL MAY have preceeded Ned's arrival at the city. I think that Illyrio was there not only to talk but to make a delivery, or pehaps to take something back to the free citites, something that could not be entrusted to bird, little or otherwise.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Then I propose that that little sump'n sump'n was ... three dragon eggs.

 

[joshrackley]

Then I propose that that little sump'n sump'n was ... three dragon eggs.

I was about to suggest the exact same thing but I couldn't remember if the chronology fit properly or not. Since someone else is suggesting it I'll assume that it does and second this proposal.

 

[The Imp]

Then I propose that that little sump'n sump'n was ... three dragon eggs.

Now THAT'S getting into the spirit of crackpottiness

Do you know for sure that the timline works, or should I check?

Before actually looking, weren't the eggs a wedding gift from Illyrio. If so, that happened way before Varys and the fat man meeting up in KL.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Are the chapters arranged chronologically, within one book? I.e if a chapter is put in the book before another, does the chapter actually take place before the one coming after?

It stands to reason that there was a cache of old eggs somewhere in the Red Keep that Varys knew of.

 

[The Imp]

Are the chapters arranged chronologically, within one book? I.e if a chapter is put in the book before another, does the chapter actually take place before the one coming after?

It stands to reason that there was a cache of old eggs somewhere in the Red Keep that Varys knew of.

i've always thought that at least in the beginning of the story, plot lines were kind of concurrent rather than consecutive.

I don't think that it was the fat man's first trip to KL, and he probably got the eggs at some point before the meeting that we see later in the book.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Ok, so what do we have so far?

Illyrio Mopatis took dragon eggs from King's Landing (presumably the Red Keep) with the help of Varys to give to Daenerys. He employs Faceless Men by the dozens, one of which was Syrio Forel, who is now masquerading as ser Meryn Trant.

 

[The Imp]

Ok, so what do we have so far?

Illyrio Mopatis took dragon eggs from King's Landing (presumably the Red Keep) with the help of Varys to give to Daenerys. He employs Faceless Men by the dozens, one of which was Syrio Forel, who is now masquerading as ser Meryn Trant.

I wouldn't say "by the dozens" but I think there are at least two. Other than that, yes.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Well, then we have to wonder...Who sent Jaqen H'gar?

 

[Tywin]

Well, then we have to wonder...Who sent Jaqen H'gar?

1) And who did he kill in King's landing?
- He obviously completed his task or he wouldn't have wandered around with the countryside in lannister employ after getting freed. My vote: Robert Baratheon.

2) And how did he get caught and imprisoned? Were there any round-ups and imprisonments right after Robert died (I know there were a lot, I'm looking for specifics though)?
- Those would be the kind of thing that might snag a FM... round up a whole room full of Soldiers and he happens to be posing as one of them and gets sent to the dungeons with the rest of them.

 

[juleska]

Jaqen had to be in the dungeon on purpose. You don't think a Faceless Man could escape from prison if they weren't supposed to be in one?

 

[The Imp]

Jaqen had to be in the dungeon on purpose. You don't think a Faceless Man could escape from prison if they weren't supposed to be in one?

And to add to that, what are the chances that Yoren could keep JH imprisoned? Even Arya "saving" him and Biter/Rorge from the fire suggests to me that he MAY have had other options and wanted to have Arya have him in her debt. What I'm saying is that JH in the black cells, then being sent to the NW was contrived.

Tywin raises a really interesting question though. If FM are sent to kill someone, and JH fulfilled his mission, whom did he kill? I'd love to think it was Robert, but Cersei is pretty much on the hook for that given the circumstances.

Tywin, can you make a case for Robert, or anyone else?

 

[joshrackley]

Is it possible that JH was in KL to kill someone that was killed by someone else? He may have been there to kill Robert but Cersei beat him to it or something like that.

Or it's possible that the mission wasn't in KL and that was just his "staging area".