Okay, I'll bite - nice irony - but did you mean all four spelling errors?
As Hope is extremely - and openly - dyslexic, I doubt it.
as she is one of the most eloquent people I know, spelling seems largely over-rated.
Are we really the offended by swearing?
- Thread starter Tower75
- Start date
As Hope is extremely - and openly - dyslexic, I doubt it.
as she is one of the most eloquent people I know, spelling seems largely over-rated.
Well now don't I feel a *%#! (I did honestly think it was irony). My son has a learning disability, so I'm not naturally insensitive about these things. Apologies to hope...As Hope is extremely - and openly - dyslexic, I doubt it.
steelyglint
Ancient leather-bound bookseller, all edges gilt.
As Hope is extremely - and openly - dyslexic, I doubt it.
Correct spelling is not over-rated. It is, however, very common on the net. Correct spelling is essential in many fields - a misspelt word in a legal document can nullify it, or give it an entirely different meaning.
Chaos ensues.
.
But Chrons is hardly a site for legal exactitude, is it? And Hope always takes care with anything needing it, such as her posts for crits and, I'm sure, her work, so I'm not sure I see your point. Nobody's saying spelling, in itself, is over-rated, only that there are better things to worry about when you know a person is eloquent and considered, but severely dyslexic. Otherwise, some important things would never posted.
And, considering rogue full stops (as above), well, glasshouses...
Which brings me back to the topic of swearing. I swear. I try not to swear in front of children and maiden aunts (I sometimes fail
). But, I'm not offended by its presence in a book. And, for me, those who are and make a big thing about how outraged they are (regardless of the work in question) should realise that not everybody holds the same values as them. Different places, different people, different rules.
AnyaKimlin
Confuddled
Plus when it is an international forum you cannot guarantee that everyone typing is doing so in the their first language. That's before we get to learning disabilities.
You can bet if I was on a French or German forum I'd have more than a few spelling errors. As long as the words are clear in context then yes correct spelling on a forum with people of all languages and abilities is overrated.
You can bet if I was on a French or German forum I'd have more than a few spelling errors. As long as the words are clear in context then yes correct spelling on a forum with people of all languages and abilities is overrated.
steelyglint
Ancient leather-bound bookseller, all edges gilt.
Accepted, there are exceptions. Thus my comment that it is very common on the (world wide) net, accepting that most such occurrences are from those using English as a second language. In a case of dyslexia it is equally understandable. The legal necessity was simply an example of one of the many fields where correct spelling is essential.
There was no intention to upset or insult. Quite apart from such not being in my character, I have hardly been a member of this site for long enough to have any reason for belligerent behaviour of that kind. If I did upset or insult anyone it was entirely unintentional and I apologise unreservedly.
Rogue full stops? If you mean the one a couple of lines below the last bit of text, it is something I always use in forum posts. Many net forum sites allow of a 'sig' which appears at the foot of every post, some of them not obviously 'fenced off' from the body of the post. The dot is added to ensure that separation, and is just habit that becomes obvious on sites that do not allow of the use of such signature lines.
.
There was no intention to upset or insult. Quite apart from such not being in my character, I have hardly been a member of this site for long enough to have any reason for belligerent behaviour of that kind. If I did upset or insult anyone it was entirely unintentional and I apologise unreservedly.
Rogue full stops? If you mean the one a couple of lines below the last bit of text, it is something I always use in forum posts. Many net forum sites allow of a 'sig' which appears at the foot of every post, some of them not obviously 'fenced off' from the body of the post. The dot is added to ensure that separation, and is just habit that becomes obvious on sites that do not allow of the use of such signature lines.
.
tinkerdan
∞<Q-Satis
As a manager and having to deal with irate customers on occasion I was once put in circumstance that seemed as though I had no clear way out of and being known as a mild mannered person it came as a shock that I used the f word. Had I not been log-jammed with business I wouldn't have snapped but it did clear the field and things proceeded quickly and quietly after.
The boss called within two hours and asked if I had really done that. The customer had called him. I explained the circumstance and took full responsibility for having used the word. He said "Okay" and hung up. I never heard about it again.
So when circumstance reach a breakpoint and my character wants to use the word....
The boss called within two hours and asked if I had really done that. The customer had called him. I explained the circumstance and took full responsibility for having used the word. He said "Okay" and hung up. I never heard about it again.
So when circumstance reach a breakpoint and my character wants to use the word....
This is a perfect opening for me to segue into something I found recently. I'm reading Alfred Hitchcock anthologies, and this is from "Stories That Go Bump in the Night", a story by Robert L. Fish, called "Muldoon and the Numbers Game":
triviadave
Member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2013
- Messages
- 12
I've just read through the entire post in one go, and I don't think anyone has said this before, so I'll add my own little bit of ignorance.
I wonder if the reason for the perception (justified or otherwise) that violence seems more acceptable than swearing is because most people assume that most people won't physically abuse them, but can relatively easily imagine them swearing at them, so reading, or seeing in a film, violence doesn't have the same level of threat as swearing might do.
Personally, I am not offended by swearing, although I do dislike it being used too frequently, I also don't use any of the "stronger" swear words - a remnant of my upbringing I suspect. That I cannot remember swearing in any of the SF books I have read (there is undoubtedly some given the books previously mentioned) suggests that, to me at least, it does not stick out as being out of place.
While we have have a multi-national audience I would be interested if any of the Americans on the forum can confirm the origin of the phrase "son of a gun" - I have heard that it has a naval origin but wouldn't mind other people's thoughts.
On a side note, I particularly enjoy the different "strength" of certain swear words in different languages. From my experience, the 'c' word is not really swearing in French, and is very mild in Spanish. However, 'son of a bitch' which, at least in England, is a very mild swear at the most, is extremely strong in French and Spanish.
Finally, and I apologise for going on a bit, I found that swearing in a foreign language never has the same intensity as it does in English, even though I understood exactly what I was saying, mirroring the earlier comment about the importance of taboo in swearing.
I wonder if the reason for the perception (justified or otherwise) that violence seems more acceptable than swearing is because most people assume that most people won't physically abuse them, but can relatively easily imagine them swearing at them, so reading, or seeing in a film, violence doesn't have the same level of threat as swearing might do.
Personally, I am not offended by swearing, although I do dislike it being used too frequently, I also don't use any of the "stronger" swear words - a remnant of my upbringing I suspect. That I cannot remember swearing in any of the SF books I have read (there is undoubtedly some given the books previously mentioned) suggests that, to me at least, it does not stick out as being out of place.
While we have have a multi-national audience I would be interested if any of the Americans on the forum can confirm the origin of the phrase "son of a gun" - I have heard that it has a naval origin but wouldn't mind other people's thoughts.
On a side note, I particularly enjoy the different "strength" of certain swear words in different languages. From my experience, the 'c' word is not really swearing in French, and is very mild in Spanish. However, 'son of a bitch' which, at least in England, is a very mild swear at the most, is extremely strong in French and Spanish.
Finally, and I apologise for going on a bit, I found that swearing in a foreign language never has the same intensity as it does in English, even though I understood exactly what I was saying, mirroring the earlier comment about the importance of taboo in swearing.
I've always understood "son of a gun" as the male equivalent of "son of a bitch." But it does not have the same punch in the USA. The first is quite mild, while the second usually portrays a bit more passion.
tinkerdan
∞<Q-Satis
Sleeping dreaming tourette syndrome of a Coprolalia type.
Seriously though I read a book recently that replaced the swear word with a made up word. The trouble was that it started on Mars which had been cut off from earth for a very very long time and Earth and Mars were using the same substitute word. I just think they should have had their own special word; after all if you can make one you can make two right.
Heh. Nah, I don't have tourettes or anything, I was just dreaming. I was actually telling my mum to f-off (in my dream). I often wake myself up by saying stuff.
steelyglint
Ancient leather-bound bookseller, all edges gilt.
According to the Oxford Dictionary of Idioms:-
SON of a gun - a jocular or affectionate way of addressing or referring to someone.
With reference to the guns carried aboard ships: the epithet is said to have originally been applied to babies born at sea to women allowed to accompany their husbands.
From Wikipedia:-
It is claimed[by whom?] that in British naval slang this term refers to a child of questionable parentage conceived on the gun deck, hence 'son of a gun'. The term possibly predates this claimed origin, and Snopes.com lists it as being part of the English lexicon since at least 1708,[1] although British warships, such as the Mary Rose, had carried gun decks since at least the times of Henry VIII in the 16th century. It was also necessary to record in the ship's papers the father of the child. As the parentage was uncertain, the senior non-commissioned officer, "The Gunner's Mate", was ascribed as the parent. It is also claimed that the saying has its origin in the supposed practice of women travelling on board ship giving birth on a sectioned-off portion of the gun deck. For instance, Admiral William Henry Smyth wrote in his 1867 book, The Sailor's Word-Book:
SON of a gun - a jocular or affectionate way of addressing or referring to someone.
With reference to the guns carried aboard ships: the epithet is said to have originally been applied to babies born at sea to women allowed to accompany their husbands.
From Wikipedia:-
It is claimed[by whom?] that in British naval slang this term refers to a child of questionable parentage conceived on the gun deck, hence 'son of a gun'. The term possibly predates this claimed origin, and Snopes.com lists it as being part of the English lexicon since at least 1708,[1] although British warships, such as the Mary Rose, had carried gun decks since at least the times of Henry VIII in the 16th century. It was also necessary to record in the ship's papers the father of the child. As the parentage was uncertain, the senior non-commissioned officer, "The Gunner's Mate", was ascribed as the parent. It is also claimed that the saying has its origin in the supposed practice of women travelling on board ship giving birth on a sectioned-off portion of the gun deck. For instance, Admiral William Henry Smyth wrote in his 1867 book, The Sailor's Word-Book:
"Son of a gun, an epithet conveying contempt in a slight degree, and originally applied to boys born afloat, when women were permitted to accompany their husbands to sea; one admiral declared he literally was thus cradled, under the breast of a gun-carriage."[2]
.
.
tinkerdan
∞<Q-Satis
I think just like adverbs and adjectives cursing has it's place and should be used in moderation.
I have walked out of the theater before when the f-word was slung around in the dialogue every few minutes and sometimes every few seconds. There is a limit to profanities value in communication; in any form.
I have walked out of the theater before when the f-word was slung around in the dialogue every few minutes and sometimes every few seconds. There is a limit to profanities value in communication; in any form.
steve12553
The Enigma of Steel
In the early 1970's when I was a freshman at Purdue, we were required to purchase The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. I cost what was a fairly large sum at the time ($10.00) and contained over 100,000 entries. As inquisitive 18 year olds we naturally checked it out thoroughly. We found about twenty words listed as Vulgar Slang. These were virtually all the native swear words without putting several descriptive words together to make an interesting phrase. The 20 or so included adding other words to the swear words to create compound words such as ____stick or ____head or ___hole. The point is out of 100,000 entries, 20 or so fell into that category. I good writer should consider using some of the 99,980 other words in most cases before using the magic 20. He or she should save those magic word for just the right spot. They can have much more impact either from an emotional stand point or a humorous one. Even in an environment where we know certain people are going to cuss every other word, it still becomes hard for the reader to stay with what becomes excessive colloquial dialogue. It's like reading a passage written in a dialect. People regularly speaking a slang dialect generally read and understand the mother language. It's much better to save street slang or vulgarities for impactful situations, isn't it?
psikeyhackr
Physics is Phutile, Fiziks is Fundamental
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2013
- Messages
- 2,179
The thing about swearing is that it is intended to be offensive but when it is used too much it loses its effect and ceases to be swearing.
It is like spices losing their flavour. Society has become so degenerate it can't degenerate any more. What fun is that? LOL
psik
It is like spices losing their flavour. Society has become so degenerate it can't degenerate any more. What fun is that? LOL
psik
tinkerdan
∞<Q-Satis
Degeneration saturation. Perhaps if we change conditions we can create a supersaturation and then within the metastable boundary we might grow some pure crystal profanities.
I don't think swearing is offensive when used under stressful situations, such as combat, coming under heavy fire and so on. It is of course offensive when used to insult someone, but then it is supposed to be offensive, not to the reader but to the victim.
I do use swearing in my writing, in the above situations and not simply for the sake of swearing. It has to be in keeping with the characters, some people swear in real life, some people don't. Stephen King in his book On Writing states, tell the truth or your writing will be a lie. The truth is people swear for lots of different reasons, if no one swears in fiction then it doesn't reflect reality.
I do use swearing in my writing, in the above situations and not simply for the sake of swearing. It has to be in keeping with the characters, some people swear in real life, some people don't. Stephen King in his book On Writing states, tell the truth or your writing will be a lie. The truth is people swear for lots of different reasons, if no one swears in fiction then it doesn't reflect reality.
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