Are we really the offended by swearing?

[Ursa major]

I first used that when I was about eight or nine, having heard it used once outside the home, with the meaning of "idiot". The only person in earshot when I used it was my mother (but not directed at her, I should add), who didn't say what it meant but told me in no uncertain terms never to use it again; I had no idea what I had said. (We didn't swear at home at all - and I didn't knowingly swear outside the home** - so I imagine it was rather a shock to my mother to hear me say it.)

I didnt hear the word again for decades, when its other meaning became apparent.



** - To the best of my knowledge, I only swear (i.e. mean to swear***) in my own company, and in my WiPs, even now.

*** - One can be really offensive without swearing at all. (Don't ask me how I know that. )

 

[Montero]

I think it was Oscar Wilde who was the one who said "A gentleman is one who is never rude....unintentionally."

 

[TitaniumTi]

I remember a portal/ time travel novel (by Stirling or Flint perhaps), in which modern Americans came into contact with people from a previous century. Comment was made on the difference in attitudes, with the characters from a previous century being particularly offended by profanity, but freely using obscenity.

In a sense, fiction acts like a portal, bringing people with divergent views and experience into contact. I think that swearing is particularly likely to evoke unexpected responses in the reader.

Although I don't swear, I am not particularly offended by swearing. However, swearing seems to be increasingly uncommon in the part of Australia where I live, perhaps because swearing is not tolerated in most workplaces. When I do hear someone swear, it is usually associated with other antisocial behaviour, such as drunkenness, road rage or a parent snarling at a neglected-looking child. These are the images that swearing in a novel conjures up for me.

 

[chongjasmine]

Hi, all.

Firstly, happy New Year. May this be the year of many bookies and writings.

Here's something to ponder, well, maybe it's not: it could be a known thing. So, here goes:

Why are 'we' (people in general) offended by swearing in literature so much?

Many a time have I read a historical novel, or a scifi novel where the author feels it's completely normal to have people murdered, or shot in the face with a musket ball, or incinerated in some industrial accident, or, and this one annoys me, include scene of rape, but God forbid someone says 'f*ck.'

I personally feel a character is more real if they do swear, that may be a childish view, but it's how I see it.

It's the same for all media it seems. Films, Video Games, etc.: Boobs? Fine. Behead a zombie and get covered in gore? Fine. 'Can I say f*ck?', 'We'll, yes, but if you do, Sexy Naked Zombie Killing Lesbian Girls IV will have to be marked up from a 12 to an 18.'

I'm not saying every word should be a swear word, or indeed have every character use cursing in lieu of actual conversation, but why is it 'acceptable' for mega-violence and general nasty stuff to be classed as okay, but people get all odd over 'bad words?'

So, what gives? Any views?

I don't really like swearing, because I find it kind of rude. I also think it destroys the beauty of the English language.

I find the reading of a novel to be more comfortable when the characters don't swear too much.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Ahh, but some of the beauty of the English language can be found in its rudeness -- I would love to see classes taught on the subject of Shakespearean insults.

 

[Ursa major]

There's a reason that Thomas Bowdler took an interest in editing the Bard's works.


I'd like to believe the title, The Family Shakspeare, was a result of the recognition of a bawdy pun built into the playwright's name, but I think it was simply the use of a common spelling used at that time.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

My teen's drama class did that last term and had a giggle shouting archaic insults at each other!

 

[hopewrites]

Shakespeareian insults and word play made up most of my explitives until about 4 years ago when obsfucation became less important to me. (Right about the time I started caring if I spelled thigs right.)

 

[DaCosta]

So, I've just read this in Focus magazine and thought it fit quite nicely here:

Can shouting overcome pain? Yes, in experiments in which students suffered the pain of ice cold water, they endured it longer if they were allowed to shout, and especially if they swore. Many other animals yelp, cry or squeal when hurt and we may have evolved the instinct to shout for three reasons: to scare away an attacker, to warn others of danger and to attract help. So our noise response may be based on ancient evolved brain structures. Interestingly, the part of the brain that deals with swearing is distinct from the main language areas in the left hemisphere. It lies deep inside the brain and includes the amygdala, which is involved in the flight-or-fight response and prepares us for action and reduces sensitivity to pain

So perhaps by swearing - especially for those that don't on a regular basis - provides a physical relief to stresses.

 

[thaddeus6th]

DaCosta, I wonder if that makes Brian Blessed impervious to pain

 

[Stephen Palmer]

So, I've just read this in Focus magazine and thought it fit quite nicely here:

Can shouting overcome pain? Yes, in experiments in which students suffered the pain of ice cold water, they endured it longer if they were allowed to shout, and especially if they swore. Many other animals yelp, cry or squeal when hurt and we may have evolved the instinct to shout for three reasons: to scare away an attacker, to warn others of danger and to attract help. So our noise response may be based on ancient evolved brain structures. Interestingly, the part of the brain that deals with swearing is distinct from the main language areas in the left hemisphere. It lies deep inside the brain and includes the amygdala, which is involved in the flight-or-fight response and prepares us for action and reduces sensitivity to pain

So perhaps by swearing - especially for those that don't on a regular basis - provides a physical relief to stresses.

Didn't Stephen Fry and Brian Blessed make a short film about this? I'm sure I saw it on tv last year.

 

[Toby Frost]

I was trying to link to an article by Ursula LeGuin on swearing, but unfortunately I can't because there is a rude word in the title. Sorry about that.

A long while ago, I read an article about someone trying to find out what the most insulting term in the English language was. The reporter concluded that it was "scum". Why? Because it's not used as a term of annoyance ("Oh scum! I hit my head!"), and it has a specific meaning of being at the bottom of the barrel, without redeeming elements. Also, as it's not often used, you have to really choose to use it.

 

[Coolhand]

I tend to echo a lot of what's already been said here, namely that

• I am not in the least offended by actualy "swear words" themselves. It seems absurd to me that "poo" is acceptable but s**t is not, when they both describe the same thing.
• For me, it's not what words are used but the way in which they are used. "I trod in some s**t" is not offensive to me, but someone screaming at me that I was "a stinking piece of poo" would actually be more offensive. For me, tone, intent and context are what carry offence, not an alternate arrangement of letters to describe the exact same idea/act/substance.
• I'm puzzled by people who are offended by a swear word in a book, but will cheerfully read descriptions of violence, cruelty, or actual rude and antisocial behaviour. Of course, they are free to filter their reading material however they so wish, I'm not judging them, but I am puzzled by them.
• Words are tools in the writers toolbox. A good writer knows when to apply the tools for maximum effect. In my own writing (not saying I'm a good writer, just illustrating how I use this particular tool) I quite like the approach of the precision F strike. When most of my characters break out the really bad words, it's because the contrast to their usual speech is either hilarious, or underlines that things are really serious. However, that doesn't mean I won't write a character that swears like a trooper every other word, if it's authentic to who that character is and if I feel it works in the context of the story.

At the end of the day, a writer is free to use as many of the tools in the toolbox as they like, and they are free to ignore as many of those tools as they like. For me, they will stand or fall based on how well those tools are used, not on which tools they employed. Readers likewise are fee to read or ignore a work based on their own sensitivities. Lots of books out there with cussin' lots of books without. Something for everyone.

 

[Rafellin]

The use of swear words is like the use of exclamation marks. Elmore Leonard's metric was 'no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose'. And that's a good guideline, I have found. Of course, it only applies when using modern argot.

Swearing in temporally-valid ways or inventing new ways to say the same thing is a way round the *!* induced by such words as 'f***' in some people.

For me, I am indifferent to the use of swear words, old or new. If the story warrants them, it will work. If they are force-fits, the story will fail and my giveaway stack will grow.

Finally, and tangentially: why is 'f***' a swear word yet 'rape' is not?

And most chucklesomely, having to edit this to give you a hint what the asterisked-out word is. A sad society is the one that has to prevent rather than educate.

 

[Ursa major]

and [scum] has a specific meaning of being at the bottom of the barrel, without redeeming elements.

Far worse than its offensiveness to the person being so described, 'scum' is a complete misuse of the word, which derives from something floating on the top of a liquid (or forming the top layer of a liquid).



And yes, I know that the obscenity derives from a different definition of the word, scum.

 

[Parson]

Finally, and tangentially: why is 'f***' a swear word yet 'rape' is not?

And most chucklesomely, having to edit this to give you a hint what the asterisked-out word is. A sad society is the one that has to prevent rather than educate.

The use of "rape" is an interesting dilemma. Could it be that there is no positive sense of "rape" and therefore it is not used as an expletive? A Parson would hope that there are some things so beyond the pale that they cannot in any way be seen "colorful" language.

As to your "chucklesome" comment: (BTW great word there!) The way and time to educate, especially children, in this kind of thing. Is one to one, eyeball to eyeball, and not as a kind of voyeur to its use. --- My parents could not? would not? explain the "use" of the lower half of the body. And I obtained a great many horrific errors about it by reading novels and watching movies etc. Those left me with serious holes in the information and the commitment which should go along with it's use.

 

[steelyglint]

I never understood why anyone is offended by swear words - they're just words. Did nobody ever tell them, as a kid, 'sticks and stones.....'.

If you're going to be offended by a word buy a dictionary and start at the beginning.

Many words accompanied by '(taboo)' in dictionaries were once proper and accepted by all. If anyone can still hold up Shakespeare and sing its praises, though a good number of the words he used are now virtually unknown, why take offence at words that have passed the test of time?

And detailed descriptions of sex in SF tales is far more obnoxious than any number of (taboo) words. If two or more characters indulge in it the author only need say that, then get on with the story's real subject matter - SF. If I want sexual acrobatics described in gory detail I'll buy 'Silhouette' publications or something similar. As I buy SF novels, it must be SF I'm looking for - the bad music and squelchy noises just don't belong in there.

.

 

[barrett1987]

I find it a challenge not to write with swearing in tense situations. I constantly have to rewrite dialogue.

 

[AMB]

Finally, and tangentially: why is 'f***' a swear word yet 'rape' is not?

Because rape is also a crop.

And a person that is raped, and speaks out about being raped, should not be accused of swearing when speaking of it.

 

[Bick]

Shakespeareian insults and word play made up most of my explitives until about 4 years ago when obsfucation became less important to me. (Right about the time I started caring if I spelled thigs right.)

Okay, I'll bite - nice irony - but did you mean all four spelling errors?
This would be a good opportunity to practice less obscure expletives.

And yes - the argument above regards 'rape' is completely valid. It's not swearing because its not an expletive. Same as torture or tax. They're unpleasant, but perfectly 'safe' words.