Are we really the offended by swearing?

[Jo Zebedee]

People curse regularly in every day speech. How can a writer write convincing dialogue without them?

Absolutely. I'm (reasonably) clean-mouthed, but in Ulster people do swear. All the time. Our language is peppered with it. To write one Ulster person without swearing is quite possible - to write ten close point of views without it is incredulous.

The trick is to think about the curse words just as much as any other. It's not a cop out or easy writing if done well, it's just authentic, and in close third that's what you want. And it's far, far from juvenile writing.

 

[Mark_Lawrence]

And incidentally, all of these seem to this writer to suggest a juvenile quality in writers who do use them.

Wonderful

The only person who is actually complaining about swearing (because it stops everything being nicey nice) ... manages to be the only person in the thread insulting others.

The case rests.

 

[Alex The G and T]

A swear is just another item in a complete vocabulary.

It's either the best word choice for the situation, or it isn't.

It seems to me to be no less ridiculous to avoid certain words; than to overuse any words.

 

[Glitch]

I'm not bothered by the use of swear words in books/films/tv etc... It can however become tiresome when overused, or if not in a context where I would expect it to be used.

People curse regularly in every day speech. How can a writer write convincing dialogue without them?

Some people do and some don't. It also depends on the context and who the other person in the conversation is. I won't use swear words when talking to my parents, for instance.

 

[Tower75]

Thanks for the replies, Chroniclers.

So, essentially, we're all - well most of us - are not bothered by swearing.

It's always nice to hear the consensus on such things.

I'm glad I found this place.

Next week: Why female fantasy characters seem to only wear armoured underwear.

 

[Dozmonic]

Having been raised in a religious setting, I'm more concerned by the need to substitute **** for sugar, said with the exact same meaning and vehemance. I'd laugh at my mum calling bad drivers all sorts of weird and wondeful Lewis Carrollesque words. But at the end of the day, she meant exactly the same as any number of four letter expletives.

A rose by any other name and all that.

As with racism, it's the intention behind the word and not the word itself that we should worry about.

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

I'm bothered by a lack of so-called "bad language". It denotes a limited imagination and being completely out of touch with how real people speak. A kid saying "fudge" instead of "****", sure, makes sense they don't want to get in trouble. It's not that they don't say the word, they just don't say it around the tall people. A teenager saying "fudge" instead of "****", that's the author having no clue what a real teenager would say. Much less adults.

No, not everyone throws out the f-bombs like they're going out of style, and granted there's a time and place for everything, but that's how people talk. Sure, not everyone's a dock worker or sailor, but so too, not everyone's a Sunday school teacher from the 1800s.

To write fake "bad language" to replace real world "bad language" makes the piece, and therefore the author, sound imbecilic. You can explain it away, like say in Battlestar Galactica where they say "frak" instead of "****", or Star Wars where they say "blast" as a catch all really. But any work that deals with humans from this world should have at least a few well-used turns of phrase.

EDIT: I find the language filter on the forum particularly meta today. And the Brits say the Americans are puritanical.

 

[AndrewT]

I have never been "offended" by it in the sense that you mean. It however is a symptom of bad taste and poor writing on the part of the author that he/she needs to use four letter words or expressions and descriptions that are vulgar or crass to convey reality or realism. I mean, whose reality are you referring to - mine or the author's? Since I prefer not to use vulgarity in my communications you would not be talking about my reality.

 

[Parson]

Let me begin by saying that I was raised in a home where no one ever swore. I did not hear my parents say anything profane, or even coarse in all my growing up years. So, I know that my view on this is most certainly effected by this.

But I do find the use of profane language to be off-putting, and when it is done continually absolutely disheartening. Anger and every other emotion can easily be described or expressed with words that are not profane. I won't stop reading a book if I run across the occasional F bomb, but if a character is continually talking like that I have a hard time hanging with the book. The best example I can think of is an old classic movie "On Golden Pond." For the life of me, a movie I should love, comes across to me as fatally flawed because of one character's continual use of profanity. I think making it worse was the fact that he was a college professor, who should have been more eloquent enough to express himself outside of profanity.

Now on a certain level I know that this is somewhat stupid. I read a lot of military SF and there is often killing is job lots, at least in parts of the book. And I'm not off put by that.

So for me, the answer to the question is yes, I am offended by swearing.

 

[Bick]

Yes, I tend to align more with Extollager and Parson on this one. I don't much like profanity in books; I suspect this is largely because (in my experience) it occurs in less well written literature in the main. Sometimes profanity adds verisimilitude to the situation or character and to not have the swearing might seem out of character, but in the main it seems to be used to add "grit" to cover up a limited ability to write well.

 

[JoanDrake]

It can pull you out of the book. Not because it's offensive but because it's unusual to see it in any media. This is getting less and less though, and I generally find I don't notice it any more. OTOH "blue" comedy is actually funnier IMO (and many comedian's). Go figure.


One thing I can't figure is "douchebag" or "douche" now being just about totally acceptable, even on tv. When I was a child that would get your mouth soapy even faster than the F bomb. Or maybe the nuns were just that strict, I dunno.

 

[Alex The G and T]

I suspect that many people who use the term "douchebag" as an anthropomorphic pejorative may not, in fact, know what is an actual douche bag.

On an even more twisted note.... One wonders why an item designed and constructed for use as a cleanser, is considered filthy by Nuns. };-}

 

[JoanDrake]

Let me begin by saying that I was raised in a home where no one ever swore. I did not hear my parents say anything profane, or even coarse in all my growing up years. So, I know that my view on this is most certainly effected by this.

But I do find the use of profane language to be off-putting, and when it is done continually absolutely disheartening. Anger and every other emotion can easily be described or expressed with words that are not profane. I won't stop reading a book if I run across the occasional F bomb, but if a character is continually talking like that I have a hard time hanging with the book. The best example I can think of is an old classic movie "On Golden Pond." For the life of me, a movie I should love, comes across to me as fatally flawed because of one character's continual use of profanity. I think making it worse was the fact that he was a college professor, who should have been more eloquent enough to express himself outside of profanity.

Now on a certain level I know that this is somewhat stupid. I read a lot of military SF and there is often killing is job lots, at least in parts of the book. And I'm not off put by that.

So for me, the answer to the question is yes, I am offended by swearing.

Strange, I was raised the same way, by the time I was 16 I could out swear sailors, though I damned sight didn't do it at home.

 

[JoanDrake]

I suspect that many people who use the term "douchebag" as an anthropomorphic pejorative may not, in fact, know what is an actual douche bag.

On an even more twisted note.... One wonders why an item designed and constructed for use as a cleanser, is considered filthy by Nuns. };-}

Everything is considered filthy by nuns. I am convinced they considered the very fact that boys knew how girls were different was a moral violation. I've always said that the best way to be sure you'll raise an atheist is to send him or her to a Catholic School.

 

[Alex The G and T]

Well, I was raised Catholic-Lite, and I've read the Bible. My wife describes herself as a "Recovering Catholic."

Between us, we can't recall any instance where God raised any objections to having a clean pootie.

 

[JoanDrake]

It's strange. I went to Catholic School from 3rd to 10th grade. I know what interdiction is, excommunication, Easter Duty, all the 7 deadly sins, the Sacraments, How to Canonize a Saint and the exact procedure for declaring a miracle, among many other points of theology and canon law.


I think I have opened the Bible about three times in my entire life.

 

[Mouse]

Let me begin by saying that I was raised in a home where no one ever swore. I did not hear my parents say anything profane, or even coarse in all my growing up years. So, I know that my view on this is most certainly effected by this.

Hmm. I never heard my parents swear. As an adult I've never heard my dad swear. Yet, I swear all the time. And I certainly don't find it offensive.

I suspect that many people who use the term "douchebag" as an anthropomorphic pejorative may not, in fact, know what is an actual douche bag.

See, I say 'douche' and 'douchebag' a lot. And yes, I know exactly what it means. I'm not keen on the words, not because of the meaning or that they might be 'rude' but because I know I've picked it up from American TV.

 

[DaCosta]

You'll get as many different replies as there are people. I swear when angry and/or frustrated but never in front of others (hubby might get a few but rarely). I was raised in a house where nobody swore and I wouldn't dream of swearing in front of my family - but - that's me. We're all different.

In books/films etc it depends who your target audience is. Who is your reader? If swearing is appropriate then use it, if not, then don't. It's pretty simple. You wouldn't swear in a text book nor would you swear in a kids book.

I write urban fantasy in contemporary times and even then I don't have a lot of swearing (virtually none) but when I do, it means something. i.e. I have the MC in the last scenes of a book use the f word to an immortal demon because quite honestly he deserves it. She's beyond angry and that one sharp swear word says a great deal about the mc's state of mind and the situation she's in - especially as she hasn't used any 'bad language' until this point.

Like any part of language swearing has it's place and writers should utilise its effect with skill.

 

[HareBrain]

Yesterday, I read a book in which a female first-person narrator (and female author) used the c-word for part of her anatomy, with no sense of it being "swearing" (ie any aggression, frustration etc). I used to think this was about the worst word in the world, because I'd pretty much only ever heard it used as an insult, but used as a straightforward sexual term it seemed robbed of all its offensiveness, and became just something more earthy than the biological one. Since the f-word is being increasingly used as a straightforward term for sex, I wonder if these words will eventually lose their power as swear-words, or if they will always seem strong depending on how they're used. If they do lose their power, what might replace them?

 

[Mouse]

Really? ^ I've heard the c-word used that way, in books, on TV, in life, a fair bit. I say it myself (though I do say it when I'm swearing, and not in a biological way!)

I've got a really posh English character - I've worked with upper class toffs and there is nobody on this Earth who swears more than toffs. So he swears (the first five words he utters in the MS are swear words), but he swears conversationally. So he uses the c-word (I think it's twice in the entire 70k) but he uses it as an apology. So he says the line, "Oh God, I'm a c**t, I'm so sorry."