GRRM confirms that fans have guessed ending!

[Anushka Mokosh]

I've very impressed with the work going on here, but you do seem to not want to believe that Tyrion is a targ. Which is understandable, but I'm getting more convinced he is.

For one, I like the irony. For two, I don't see the purpose of it. For three, there is little to imply it. All the hints about Tyrion highly imply or straight out say he is a true son of Tywin. It isn't without the reason that I'd like for Tyrion to be the Hand of teh King/Queen in the end.

It isn't that I don't want it. It is that I can't find anything in the books that would imply so to me whereas I can find such things for Cersei and Jaime and the fact that I don't find it meaningful in any way. Now, Cersei and Jaime being Aerys' children while Tyrion being Tywin's is much more rewarding.

Besides, Tyrion always dreamed of flying a dragon as a child because of his complexes so I think it'd bee too much of a sweet in the bitter-sweet about his. As the grayest of all Martin's grey characters, I think that his end should be the most bitter-sweet one. Furthermore, I'd much rather he is rewarded by something suitable to his talents than him turning out to be a Targ and then his reward steaming from his blood.

So if you think he's not, who's going to ride the three dragons, currently Tyrion is sitting closest to the two spare ones?

I don't know yet because I've heard so many theories over the years and it is heavily playing with my brain, but I'm almost 100% sure Tyrion won't be one of them.

I hope I'm not sounding, too argumentative, I'm not meaning to be, I'm just curious to what everyone's thinking is, and this site is the most knowledgeable people I've spoke to about GOT. I got feed up on the other sites talking about the hound and Sansa love affair.

I don't mind and it doesn't seem so to me.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Much of the information I found seems to be contradictory. Like, wiki pages say that Aerys picked Tywin as hand of the King AFTER Tywin dealt with the rebellion of the Reynes and Tarbecks, but when Aerys was crowned, Tytos was still alive and apparently Tywin was his frist hand. In short (long) I have no proof that Tywin is, or is not, Aegon's son. I have however developed a theory after all of this research. If Tywin and Joanna didn't have children for the first 5 years of their marriage, it might be that Tywin, like Jon Arryn, had some problems with fertility. If that were the case, it would make sense if Jaime and Cersei are the product of King Aerys, but that Tyrion was Tywin's trueborn child who was born with birth defects, kind of like Jon Arryn's son.

Tywin being Aegon's son? Well, this is certainly the first time I hear that theory. Not that bad of a theory, but GRRM has left in shadows a lot that occurred between Tywin, his wife and Aerys II.

okay brain fart on my end. The highlighted part SHOULD have read:

"I have no proof that Tyrion is, or is not, Aerys' Son"

I had spent too long reading all these names and got the names mized up.

I've very impressed with the work going on here, but you do seem to not want to believe that Tyrion is a targ. Which is understandable, but I'm getting more convinced he is.

So if you think he's not, who's going to ride the three dragons, currently Tyrion is sitting closest to the two spare ones?

I hope I'm not sounding, too argumentative, I'm not meaning to be, I'm just curious to what everyone's thinking is, and this site is the most knowledgeable people I've spoke to about GOT. I got feed up on the other sites talking about the hound and Sansa love affair.

you aren;t coming accross as argumentative at all Groot. we all like to discuss and reharsh our favourite theories, it helps to pass the time til Winds of Winter comes out.

As for who rides her dragsons, I couldn't say. I am actually starting to think we won't ever see 3 people riding around on these 3 dragons, but that is just a feeling I have. I believe Martin said somewhere that, while Tyrion and Dany are in close proximity, they won't actually meet, and their arcs are going to be spreading out again. I will try to find the source

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Found the source I was looking for, the link and the relevant quote are below.

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-r-r-martin-drops-the-winds-of-winter-hints-20140626

Martin also teased some ramped-up goings-on at The Wall, the big return of the Dothraki and a meeting between two fan favorites: Daenerys and Tyrion Lannister. "Well, Tyrion and Dany will intersect, in a way, but for much of the book they’re still apart," Martin said. "They both have quite large roles to play here. Tyrion has decided that he actually would like to live, for one thing, which he wasn't entirely sure of during the last book, and he’s now working toward that end—if he can survive the battle that’s breaking out all around him. And Dany has embraced her heritage as a Targaryen and embraced the Targaryen words. So they’re both coming home."

This doesn't rule him out as a head of the dragon, but it does seem to indicate that Tyrion won't be dying any time soon, despite what a dozen different articles would like to imply. (just google "News for Winds of Winter" and you will see what I mean)

 

[Deɑth.]

>Dany coming home.

It just took us more than a decade to wait.

Also, Whitebeard, don't you mean Tyrion being Aerys' son and not Aegon's?

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

>Dany coming home.

It just took us more than a decade to wait.

Also, Whitebeard, don't you mean Tyrion being Aerys' son and not Aegon's?

By the time the book about that is out, it is like to be 2 decades.

He said so.

"I have no proof that Tyrion is, or is not, Aerys' Son"

 

[Deɑth.]

By the time the book about that is out, it is like to be 2 decades.

He said so.

"I have no proof that Tyrion is, or is not, Aerys' Son"

Ah, I misread it.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

too many similar sounding names and too much reading Wiki pages, my brain was turning to mush.

I am so excited for the next book to come out. Not just so that I can read it, but I am anticipating that this forum is going to explode with new theories and people saying "I told you so!". it helps pass a boring day at work

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

too many similar sounding names and too much reading Wiki pages, my brain was turning to mush.

I am so excited for the next book to come out. Not just so that I can read it, but I am anticipating that this forum is going to explode with new theories and people saying "I told you so!". it helps pass a boring day at work

I can very much relate. Hadn't heard a good crack theory for years now. Hurry up, GRRM! I need my fix.

 

[Fitcherman]

A Song of Ice and Fire means Ice and Fire working in harmony together.

To me this means White Walkers and Dragons working together to rid the world of the Men.

 

[Deɑth.]

So, you're speaking about humans vs Zombie Ice/Fire Dragons.

Geez, I wonder who'd win.

 

[Groot]

I prefer Fire Dragons Vs Ice Dragon

in the Ice dragon story, they are said to be three times as big, if I remember correctly.

So Zombie and children of the forest with an Ice Dragon and Bran VS Fire Dragons with Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion riding them.

I predict.

 

[Fitcherman]

So, you're speaking about humans vs Zombie Ice/Fire Dragons.

Geez, I wonder who'd win.

I assume that you are saying it is a lopsided battle. But the White Walkers are on the wrong side of the wall and as Bran said, Men will not succumb to their deaths easily. They will unite and fight. They obviously have the drastic advantage in terms of numbers and I think they would win.

All you have to do is look at a couple of major points. A Song of Ice and Fire. A Song is harmony and melody and cooperation. Notes working together. That means Ice and Fire will be working together. Martin has never said outright that the Dragons will be fighting against the White Walkers, but that is what you have been led to believe. He always has a twist up his sleeve.

 

[Groot]

I like the thinking of Song, but it will be heavily one side if the White walkers and dragons are going to be on the same side, and quite dull, I can't see it.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I assume that you are saying it is a lopsided battle. But the White Walkers are on the wrong side of the wall and as Bran said, Men will not succumb to their deaths easily. They will unite and fight. They obviously have the drastic advantage in terms of numbers and I think they would win.

All you have to do is look at a couple of major points. A Song of Ice and Fire. A Song is harmony and melody and cooperation. Notes working together. That means Ice and Fire will be working together. Martin has never said outright that the Dragons will be fighting against the White Walkers, but that is what you have been led to believe. He always has a twist up his sleeve.

There is a fundamental flaw to your theory. a Song of Ice and Fire does not necessarilt mean a song comprised of Ice and Fire, more like a song ABOUT Ice and Fire, which indicates nothing. There are all kinds of examples of songs about battles and disputes. I would also like to point out the westeros example of "the Dance of the Dragons" which was a bloody civil war involving 2 targaryans fighting each other (with dragons), even though Dancing is usually a happy thing involving 2 partners.

On the other hand, there may be some relevance to your points, as many have theorized. Jon, as lord commander of the Night;s watch which guards a giant wall made of ICE, uniting with Dany, who commands dragons made of FIRE (not literally MADE fo fire but, you know... "Fire made flesh") but i highly doubt if there will be a union between the white walkers and the dragons.

 

[Fitcherman]

I think it is all a continuation of the Long Night 8,000-10,000 years ago. The Children of the Forest and probably the White Walkers lost the first time around so they have been re-building for one last chance to rid their world of men once and for all. I think Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest are behind everything.

The Red Priests of Asshai think they are communicating with their God but they misunderstand who that God is. They are being shown everything in their fires by Bloodraven. If he controls the Red Priests, he controls Melisandre at the Wall, the High Priest who was speaking against Dany's enemies, and Moqorro who is on his way to join Dany. This would lead to an alliance between the Children of the Forest, the White Walkers, the Red Priests, Dany and her Dragons, and Bloodraven, who is the last greenseer and the general in charge of everything.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

that's a pretty crackpotty theory. You may be on to something, but I don't think bloodraven is responsible for the visions people are seeing in fires.

Plus, the red priests have been around for hundreds of years, wheras bloodraven is only about 100 years old or so. (i know, "Only 100"). mayhaps the Children of the forest are involved, but I still find that unlikely.

 

[Fitcherman]

I think Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest are the ones manipulating those visions because they are known sorcerers and the earliest magic users. Melisandre doesn't seem to understand what she is always seeing and this would support my belief that the Red Priests are not true magic users, they are merely borrowing the skill from Bloodraven/Children who are letting the Red Priests have some abilities as long as it suits their own needs.

It would also explain why the Red Priests seem to know more about the Long Night and Azor Ahai than actual men from Westeros. It is their own history yet they seem unaware of what happened in the past. Whereas the Red Priests have been shown visions and told prophecies by the Children of the Forest and Bloodraven all the way across the world in Asshai.

According to some dates I looked up, Bloodraven is about 125 years old, but he is merely the last greenseer and there were more before him. Bran is now his apprentice and could possibly be the last greenseer if Bloodraven were to die.

Another point supporting this is Aemon and Bloodraven. They are both Targaryens and were sent to the Wall as part of the same party. Bloodraven rose to Commander of the Night's Watch, yet he is never mentioned by Aemon or the Night's Watch. To me this means he went rogue and started working for the enemy, as in the Children of the Forest and the White Walkers.

 

[Boaz]

Welcome, Fitcherman! Thanks for chiming in on the GRRM forum. Let me first state, that I've been on the Chrons for nine years, that I love conspiracy theories, and that I want to know all theories of Ice and Fire. I love the game of thrones, but the supernatural will decide the fate of Westeros... so sell me on your idea.

I'd not thought of the Red Priests being controlled by someone else. In fact, it seems to me that they are the only ones south of the Wall who actually do possess some supernatural abilities besides worging. I don't want to shoot your idea down, but can you explain how the priests work their magic in Essos and on the sea?

 

[Deɑth.]

I assume that you are saying it is a lopsided battle. But the White Walkers are on the wrong side of the wall and as Bran said, Men will not succumb to their deaths easily. They will unite and fight. They obviously have the drastic advantage in terms of numbers and I think they would win.

The White Walkers are on the wrong side of the Wall because Winter hasn't yet fully come and wrapped everyone under its claws. Once it happens, you might see their attacks being more and more frequent since the Wall is lacking strong and disciplined men with the right weapons to fight them. There's a reason of why it's called "Winds of Winter" (the next book) and it's probably going to be about the realm trying to survive Winter.

I do understanding your reasoning of humans persevering.

All you have to do is look at a couple of major points. A Song of Ice and Fire. A Song is harmony and melody and cooperation. Notes working together. That means Ice and Fire will be working together. Martin has never said outright that the Dragons will be fighting against the White Walkers, but that is what you have been led to believe. He always has a twist up his sleeve.

Not really. A Song of of Ice AND Fire. It doesn't have to be just a song of both elements in harmony, but what about those two elements. What happens between them? We're yet to know that.

 

[Fitcherman]

The White Walkers are on the wrong side of the Wall because Winter hasn't yet fully come and wrapped everyone under its claws. Once it happens, you might see their attacks being more and more frequent since the Wall is lacking strong and disciplined men with the right weapons to fight them. There's a reason of why it's called "Winds of Winter" (the next book) and it's probably going to be about the realm trying to survive Winter.

I do understanding your reasoning of humans persevering.


Not really. A Song of of Ice AND Fire. It doesn't have to be just a song of both elements in harmony, but what about those two elements. What happens between them? We're yet to know that.

The most common theory I have heard about Ice and Fire is that Dany and her dragons will sweep down on the White Walkers and save Westeros from the monsters. That is even what I thought myself after reading it for the first time. But when does Mr. Martin give us the easy outcome? He always has surprises in store for his readers. I don't think he would make the most important part of his story be that predictable.

If it was just White Walkers vs. everyone else, I don't see how that is much of a battle at all. They tried that the first time around and it didn't work, now the Children of the Forest have even less in numbers so they would be doomed to repeat their failure.

That is why I think this time they will be working with more allies. The Children of the Forest have been plotting their revenge for 8,000 years and have strategically placed their pieces around the world. With Greenseers, White Walkers, Wargs, Dragons, Red Priests, and perhaps others such as the Faceless Men on their side, they will not be fighting alone this time. Even with all that help though, I still think they would lose to Men who could field an army perhaps as large as 300,000 strong.