A Rediscovery of Clifford D. Simak - A Reading Challenge

[LoZioOscuro]

I realized I hadn't checked into this thread in a little while, or rather I'd read some posts, but had dropped the ball regards posting myself. I just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed reading the recent discussions. your insights are fascinating, Dave. Also, it would be remiss not to welcome you to the thread, so to speak, Hugh, as you're a newish member, and clearly a knowledgable CDS fan. Delighted to get another officionanado on the board!

I've not been reading much Simak in the last few months, but I expect I'll set that straight soon. Which later novel would folk recommend, for instance? Most of the work I've read is 1960s or earlier.

Bick,
I'm not the most indicated person to suggest some Simak's work, as I'd suggest them all... however, thinking of what he wrote after the sixties, I'd recommend (in random order):

Novels
- A Heritage of Stars
- The Destiny Doll
- The Fellowship of the Talisman (fantasy)
- Project Pope
- Special Deliverance
- Cemetery World
- Highway to Eternity (IMHO not as good as the above mentioned ones, but remarkable as well, as it's the very last thing he wrote)

Short stories
- All the Traps of Earth
- Horrible Example
- Shotgun Cure
- New Folk's Home
- The Thing in the Stone
- The Autumn Land (great!)
- The Marathon Photograph
- The Ghost of a Model T
- The Grotto of the Dancing Deer

Is it enough?
I'd appreciate that you posted your comments, once you had read something.
All the best

Roberto

 

[Hugh]

And many thanks for the welcome, Bick.

And while I agree with Roberto's recommendations, the later books that I have particular soft spots for are:

Highway of Eternity: I just really enjoyed it. I particularly liked various images and plot twists that have remained with me. One such minor example (non plot spoiling) is an enormous tree which appears in one thread of the plot with no explanation or background and then the plot moves on and we never hear of it again. This often happens with Simak. As it's his last book, I don't know to what extent he was assisted by a certain Dave Wixon. Any chance of a comment regarding this, Dave?

Enchanted Pilgrimage: because it was a complete surprise to me to find that Simak had written fantasy.

Heritage of Stars: such an enjoyable read.

Destiny Doll
Project Pope: both are really well crafted.

I'll stop here because otherwise I'll just recommend them all. I guess so much depends on the space I was in when I read them, how hurried I was, how much I connected at an inner level, etc etc. They are all worth reading.

It might be easier to say which I think are the weaker of the later books: in my opinion "The Visitors", "Our Children's Children", and "Where the Evil Dwells". Even so, they are still Simak.

 

[LoZioOscuro]

And many thanks for the welcome, Bick.

And while I agree with Roberto's recommendations, the later books that I have particular soft spots for are:

Highway of Eternity: I just really enjoyed it. I particularly liked various images and plot twists that have remained with me. One such minor example (non plot spoiling) is an enormous tree which appears in one thread of the plot with no explanation or background and then the plot moves on and we never hear of it again. This often happens with Simak. As it's his last book, I don't know to what extent he was assisted by a certain Dave Wixon. Any chance of a comment regarding this, Dave?

Enchanted Pilgrimage: because it was a complete surprise to me to find that Simak had written fantasy.

Heritage of Stars: such an enjoyable read.

Destiny Doll
Project Pope: both are really well crafted.

I'll stop here because otherwise I'll just recommend them all. I guess so much depends on the space I was in when I read them, how hurried I was, how much I connected at an inner level, etc etc. They are all worth reading.

It might be easier to say which I think are the weaker of the later books: in my opinion "The Visitors", "Our Children's Children", and "Where the Evil Dwells". Even so, they are still Simak.

I agree with Hugh. As to the weakest novels, I agree with his judgment of "The Visitors" and " Our Children's Children".
As to "Where the Evil Dwells", IMHO it's not bad, but, surprisingly enough, it's a kind of photocopy of " The Fellowship of the Talisman " on a lower level, so it makes little sense. Often the same concepts, descriptions, characters and situations appear in his works, but, to my recollection, no other novels are so similar.

And indeed it'd be most interesting to read Dave's comment about " Highway of/to Eternity " (as far as I know it's known with both names).

Roberto

 

[Bick]

Many thanks for the recommendations, folks. I'd forgotten Cemetery World was written as late as 1972 - I have read and enjoyed that novel. Heritage of Stars sounds well regarded and its sitting on my shelf, so perhaps I'll give it a go next.

EDIT: Eeek. I don't have Heritage of Stars on the shelf - I was thinking of a different book obviously. But I do have Destiny Doll, Special Deliverance & Highway to Eternity. Hmm... I shall track down Heritage, and maybe read one of the others now.

 

[2DaveWixon]

Many thanks for the recommendations, folks. I'd forgotten Cemetery World was written as late as 1972 - I have read and enjoyed that novel. Heritage of Stars sounds well regarded and its sitting on my shelf, so perhaps I'll give it a go next.

EDIT: Eeek. I don't have Heritage of Stars on the shelf - I was thinking of a different book obviously. But I do have Destiny Doll, Special Deliverance & Highway to Eternity. Hmm... I shall track down Heritage, and maybe read one of the others now.

Absent HERITAGE, I guess I'd recommend SPECIAL DELIVERANCE for your next assault -- with this caveat: for me, at least, it was somewhat disappointing the first time through, but it's one I've found more in with each re-reading... A great deal of it is extensions of things in earlier Simak stories -- not mere re-iterations, but re-examinations that sometimes turn old thoughts on their heads.

P.S. DESTINY DOLL is also one I find more in each time...

 

[2DaveWixon]

-- Cliff was a reticent sort, and even in those journals that survive, he seldom recorded his real thoughts...)

I'll add that there were indeed a few occasions in which he did record "his real thoughts." But I'd prefer not to go into that just now...

 

[LoZioOscuro]

I'll add that there were indeed a few occasions in which he did record "his real thoughts." But I'd prefer not to go into that just now...

That let us hope you'll do that in the future...
Best
Roberto

 

[2DaveWixon]

" As for those stories that Cliff finished but never sold: I'm not experienced enough in judging the worth of fiction to have a worth-while opinion as to their salability -- but I guess, with that caveat, at least a few of them might have been publishable in their day. But I did not feel I should "muddy the waters" by including them in the 14-vol. collection. "

Dave, let me say first that your posts are exceedingly interesting, and I do thank you for them.
As to the unsold stories, well, I always supposed (without really thinking to it, in reality) that all the stories he wrote had been published - or had went lost.
Knowing that unsold stories survived, well, I don't know about the other Simak fans, but I myself would utterly love to read them.
I don't know about the ethics of this matter, and can understand that mixing up published and unpublished stories would be unfair.
Nevertheless, I think that a book grouping such unsold stories would rise a great interest in his fans; even though I must admit that the commercial output would be questionable.
One question: why did you define " Pipeline to Destiny " a non-professional story? It is listed in all the lists covering his stories, so I expected I would read it, one day or another.
Thanks again.
Roberto

Shortly after we in this thread mentioned "Pipeline to Destiny," I was contacted by a gentleman named Mark Stackpole, who offered me a scan of the story -- which, of course, I immediately accepted... I now have it, and am in the process of transcribing it from the scanned form.
Perhaps I'll talk about it later...

In the meantime, my thanks to Mark for his kindness.

 

[J-Sun]

Finally finished reading Simak's second collection, The Worlds of Clifford Simak (1960). There was no problem with the book - just other stuff kept getting in the way. This one may be even better than his first, which I posted about earlier in the thread, but they are pretty comparable. Yesterday, I did some more research and confirmed that this collection also has "other edition" issues to beware of, though, ironically, it's the reverse of the other collection. The UK edition of the first was cut well, IMO (allowing that cutting is bad in general), and the US PB was bad, but the UK HC of the second is horribly cut as Aliens for Neighbors and is cut further in paperback. The US paperback is split in two (as The Worlds of and Other Worlds of) and, if they were trying for balance, they failed. But if they were trying to get all the best stuff in the first one and that sold so well that they just decided to bring out the second half as well, then they did a great job, as I'd only switch "Idiot's Crusade" and "Honorable Opponent" as I very much preferred the former but the latter is the one in the first paperback.

I especially liked "The Big Front Yard," "Idiot's Crusade," "Operation Stinky," "Jackpot," and "Lulu" which I think are essential, and also liked "Neighbor" as borderline essential. I still liked "Green Thumb," "Dusty Zebra," and "Carbon Copy" but they were just okay. "Foundng Father" had me kind of nonplussed while I didn't care for "Death Scene" or "Honorable Opponent."

"Big Front Yard" misses sheer perfection by having a kind of chaotic easy ending but is still a tremendous story deserving of its awards and fame. A local fixit guy wakes to his dog barking at the floor and soon finds his house (and world) transformed. A great central concept and great details and what should be unforgettable scenes (though, in the umpty-ump years between readings, I somehow had forgotten them but was delighted to remember them). "Idiot's Crusade" and "Operation Stinky" don't seem to be especially big stories to many people but I liked them a lot. (Maybe the off-putting title hurts the latter story?) The first is an alien possession story that is also a fascinating portrait of "the moralistic busybody." The latter is about a "skunk" that purrs and works magic with machinery who takes up with the town drunk. All three seem very Simakian but "Jackpot" and "Lulu" take us off Earth and have a more "50s planet explorer" vibe and structure. Still clearly Simak stories, though. The former is about another moralistic busybody amongst a crew of people who are anything but, as they try to plunder what may finally be their jackpot. It ends up being a "the chasing is better than the catching" kind of story, though and reiterates the "alien school" motif of "Immigrant" and "Kindergarten" in the last collection. "Lulu" is about a robot spaceship becoming a little too human and deciding she loves her crew and wants to elope with them. Can the two regular joes save the day? Can the bad poet? This is not an outright "joke" story but it is very funny. "Neighbor" is actually flawed by a lack of dramatic tension which Simak tries to paper over by overselling a moment of ominous doom but is otherwise so quintessentially Simak, with his small community living in an isolated valley trying to farm and be neighborly (but not too neighborly) that it just seems like it would have to be in any "Best of" Simak. (It actually is in The Best of and Over the River but was neglected by Skirmish.) Anyway: a new family moves in and seems a little odd but gradually comes to be accepted. The only drama is about whether an investigator who arrives with the intent to pry into their paradise will mess it up or not.

The rest are "trading with aliens, maybe via magically appearing gizmo" stories (loosely speaking, "Dusty Zebra" and "Carbon Copy" in this one, like (again, loosely) "Immigrant," "Kindergarten," and "Contraption" in the first collection) or "ordinary joe meets extraordinary critter" stories ("Green Thumb," like "Operation Stinky" in this and, sort of, like "Skirmish" in the other), an odd proto-VR story ("Founding Father," like "Shadow Show" in the other - and "Founding Father" is apparently a very highly regarded story but just didn't work for me), and then "Death Scene" is a faulty "if we could see a day ahead in time" tale and "Honorable Opponent" is one of the many "aliens have a moral equivalent for war" stories.

In sum: not solid gold, but really good and, again, not adequately covered by other collections (aside from the "complete" series), so highly recommended.

(Just re-read your post on Immigrant and Other Stories, Bick - while we may be poles apart on some stories, we seem to agree completely on "Neighbor" and it seems like you liked "Green Thumb" a shade more than I did (it was my favorite of the "not quite essential" stories) but your description sounds like we saw the story generally the same way.

-- Oh, I forgot you also discussed The Autumn Land and Other Stories and you don't seem to have liked "Jackpot" as much as I did. I agree it isn't up with his very best, but I still wouldn't want to do without it. )

 

[Bick]

I've read a few of those from the original Galaxy magazines in which they appeared, J-Sun. I agree that "Operation Stinky" is a much better story that it is a title. "Honorable Opponent" is I think slightly over-rated in the main. Its okay, but its one of those stories that depends so much on the twist, that the story itself is rather flat,as if once the twist had been devised, less thought went into crafting what precedes it. A bit like in Damon Knight's "To Serve Man".

I did enjoy "Jackpot", I just thought it was less terrific than some in the collection. Of the ones you liked best, I've yet to track down and read "Big Front Yard" (quite an omission admission). Its on my radar, for sure.

 

[Ralf 58]

Hello all,
I have made in my Simak-Bibliography a major update. Contained are now also radio programs as well as television series, movies and stage plays.

I wish you much fun!

Ralf

 

[Lafayette]

I'm glad to see that there are a good number of Clifford D. Simak fans. He is on reflection (because I've forgotten him until recently) one of my favorite writers.

One of things I liked about his stories were they weren't about saving the universe. I get tired of this idea and is one of the reasons I reject a lot of e-books coming my way even when they are free.

 

[2DaveWixon]

I'm glad to see that there are a good number of Clifford D. Simak fans. He is on reflection (because I've forgotten him until recently) one of my favorite writers.

One of things I liked about his stories were they weren't about saving the universe. I get tired of this idea and is one of the reasons I reject a lot of e-books coming my way even when they are free.

Well, then, you're in the right place -- both in Chrons and in this thread. Welcome to both!

 

[Bick]

Ralf : fantastic! I've not previously wanted to seek out a Russian movie with no subtitles (I'm presuming there are none), but I really want to find that film of Anomaliya ("Anomoly"; All Flesh is Grass). Has anyone by any chance seen it? I see on IMDB it doesn't rate so well. Tarkovsky could have done a great job of the material, its along his lines in mood I think -shame he didn't direct a version.

 

[2DaveWixon]

Ralf : fantastic! I've not previously wanted to seek out a Russian movie with no subtitles (I'm presuming there are none), but I really want to find that film of Anomaliya ("Anomoly"; All Flesh is Grass). Has anyone by any chance seen it? I see on IMDB it doesn't rate so well. Tarkovsky could have done a great job of the material, its along his lines in mood I think -shame he didn't direct a version.

It's too bad that the film-makers did not bother to seek Cliff's permission and never paid him a dime!
Don't forget that there are thieves out there...

 

[Bick]

It's too bad that the film-makers did not bother to seek Cliff's permission and never paid him a dime!
Don't forget that there are thieves out there...

Good grief - yes, I suppose I should have wondered, but one just assumes royalties and rights are paid for. Okay, now I'm less inclined to seek it out. You should sue, Dave!

 

[2DaveWixon]

Good grief - yes, I suppose I should have wondered, but one just assumes royalties and rights are paid for. Okay, now I'm less inclined to seek it out. You should sue, Dave!

No reason you could have known, or wondered, my friend. In fact, I had largely forgotten about that film, until Ralf's post reminded me.

Cliff and I looked into bringing a lawsuit, years ago, when we first learned of the piracy (we did not learn it had occurred until years after the fact). We ran into roadblock after roadblock, even in trying to find out who did the film and where they were...but eventually we concluded that it would cost more than it was worth to try to pursue the matter.
Russia -- then still the USSR -- in that era had very arcane copyright and currency laws, which included a provision that would have required Cliff to leave any money he got out of a book or movie in Russia, where it could only by used if he went there to spend it.... (The same was true of the various other Iron Curtain countries: the publishers were generally under the thumbs of the government's fiscal authorities, who, in the interest of their balance of trade, never let money leave the various countries. So the publishers just went ahead and published, and money was theoretically deposited into an account in the author's name in a Russian (or other) bank -- where it just sat, without earning interest, while the currency devalued. We could find no way to ever get the money out and back to the U.S.)

(We were told that Cliff's books were popular in Russia; and every now and then a fan would send him a copy of one or another of those Russian (or other) editions.)

(Thankfully, Russia is much more open and ethical and business like, over the last couple of decades. And the former Iron Curtain countries, even better!)

At that time, as far as we could learn, the film had not been shown in the U.S. -- if it had been, we could have attached the assets of Americans who arranged that showing.

But by that time, we were into Cliff's last years; and his emphysema and other problems had weakened him so much -- well, we just tacitly decided to let it go...

By this time, I'm sure that the statute of limitations, whatever it might be, has expired.

If it sounds as if I'm bitter -- I guess I am. But I would never hold it against you, or anyone, if you took a look at the film (for one thing, I'd like to know if it was at all a good representation of the book...and besides, it was one of Cliff's favorite books; he'd like the idea of his fans getting to see his story on film -- if it's at least moderately good, that is...).

 

[Bick]

Again, great to get such insights straight from the heart of camp Simak, Dave. I'm sure you did the right thing to just let it go. It's not especially well reviewed as far as I can see, and sourcing a copy to watch will probably not be easy in any event, so I doubt I'll be able to report back. But if I do see it, I'll be sure and let you know.

I'm fascinated with your comment that All Flesh... was one of Cliff's favourites. Are you able to tell us which other's he especially had a fondness for or was proud of particularly?

 

[2DaveWixon]

And many thanks for the welcome, Bick.

And while I agree with Roberto's recommendations, the later books that I have particular soft spots for are:

Highway of Eternity: I just really enjoyed it. I particularly liked various images and plot twists that have remained with me. One such minor example (non plot spoiling) is an enormous tree which appears in one thread of the plot with no explanation or background and then the plot moves on and we never hear of it again. This often happens with Simak. As it's his last book, I don't know to what extent he was assisted by a certain Dave Wixon. Any chance of a comment regarding this, Dave?

Enchanted Pilgrimage: because it was a complete surprise to me to find that Simak had written fantasy.

Oh, no, I can take no credit for any of Cliff's work. Cliff was very protective of his writing, and though I could speculate about that, I won't, here; suffice to say that aside from a story he wrote with his son in later life, he only attempted collaborations twice, both with local writer Carl Jacobi. The second was never accepted, and of the first, Cliff would later say that the two of them "fought like cats and dogs."

More definitively, Cliff said several times, in later years, that he never let other people read his stories as he was working on them; he said it made the story go "flat" for him, that it made the magic go away. Who would not respect that and back away?

Writers differ, I'm sure you know. Cliff had that attitude, but Gordy Dickson, for instance, was very different on that score.

(As for ENCHANTED PILGRIMAGE: Well, I have to tell you that in my opinion, it's not a fantasy. Read the book while keeping in mind Cliff's frequent use of alternate worlds stories, and then look at the ending again....)

 

[2DaveWixon]

And indeed it'd be most interesting to read Dave's comment about " Highway of/to Eternity " (as far as I know it's known with both names).

Roberto

Well, the correct title is Highway of Eternity -- but to tell the truth, I do the same thing other people do: I keep trying to say "Highway to Eternity."

I don't know why people do that, why I do that -- but it's particularly interesting that in the book itself, one of the characters makes that same mistake, and is corrected by another character... The character who makes the mistake then grumps that it makes "Small difference" which of the names is used, but the second character disagrees, in somewhat mysterious fashion.

I've been pondering that ever since I noticed it, but have reached no conclusion as to what it means.