Lets Talk About Things Science Cannot Explain

The pre-big bang "infinitesimally small singularity" may be the ultimate multum in parvo but as it contains all the matter in creation (I guess) it at least has the superficial appearance of having to come from somewhere and since it was surrounded by nothing to begin with I'm still stuck on where did it come from? I just can't believe (but don't have the training to deny) it came from nothing. My head hurts, I'm going to Name The Film thread now.
 
dask said:
The pre-big bang "infinitesimally small singularity" may be the ultimate multum in parvo but as it contains all the matter in creation (I guess) it at least has the superficial appearance of having to come from somewhere and since it was surrounded by nothing to begin with I'm still stuck on where did it come from? I just can't believe (but don't have the training to deny) it came from nothing. My head hurts, I'm going to Name The Film thread now.
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That's not really the issue - I mean we know, or at least hypothesis and use in loads of theories, that particles pop in and out of existence in the froth that is that the quantum vacuum. That's 'something for nothing' (Actually it's energy converting into matter - but if you can believe that, then just imagine that the universe was created by a huge instability of energy that then found a way of converting itself into a bit of matter too...)

No the issue is really that right now we can only speculate, angels on the heads of pins style, on what might have occurred before the big bang. We have no idea - so unless evidence of some sort can be found for events before the big bang (whatever that means, because spacetime should have come into existence at that moment, so really there was no 'before' in the sense of our understanding.)

So saying that the universe 'came from nothing' is purely your belief. Remember too that this belief based on what happens in our universe - law of conservation of energy, momentum, charge etc.... So we assume that it might be the same for the totality of everything...yet, the creation of the whole lot took place in a larger arena - who knows what on earth laws and conditions existed at that point?
 
Venusian Broon said:
That's not really the issue - I mean we know, or at least hypothesis and use in loads of theories, that particles pop in and out of existence in the froth that is that the quantum vacuum. That's 'something for nothing' (Actually it's energy converting into matter - but if you can believe that, then just imagine that the universe was created by a huge instability of energy that then found a way of converting itself into a bit of matter too...)

No the issue is really that right now we can only speculate, angels on the heads of pins style, on what might have occurred before the big bang. We have no idea - so unless evidence of some sort can be found for events before the big bang (whatever that means, because spacetime should have come into existence at that moment, so really there was no 'before' in the sense of our understanding.)

So saying that the universe 'came from nothing' is purely your belief. Remember too that this belief based on what happens in our universe - law of conservation of energy, momentum, charge etc.... So we assume that it might be the same for the totality of everything...yet, the creation of the whole lot took place in a larger arena - who knows what on earth laws and conditions existed at that point?
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Extremely interesting, especially the quantum froth. Thank you. Of course I'm wondering if the big bang was the result of an "instability of energy" where did the energy come from and what caused it to be unstable?

Just to be clear: "So saying that the universe 'came from nothing' is purely your belief" is not my belief and I do not recall ever saying it was.
 
dask said:
Just to be clear: "So saying that the universe 'came from nothing' is purely your belief" is not my belief and I do not recall ever saying it was.
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But, there had to be a beginning. Ergo, it did have to "come from nothing". (?)

Mind boggling.
 
We are talking of a point in time when the universe was a minute fraction of a second old and energy levels were such that we can only assume that at this point superunification was in place.

The truth is we have no idea. I think the idea of an instability of energy is probably the closest we can come at this point to presenting an answer. Anything from there on out is highly theoretical.

At this point the where did the energy come from question does not have a simple answer.

As venusian broon has said this is all speculation. At this point your mind is really free to wonder.

Maybe it was an effect of something occuring in dimensions we are not aware of. In that case the term effect maybe a little confusing. Our understanding of time and space in this universe means we tend to think of things as cause and effect but this may not be the case. Even within the dimensions we do observe the order in which things happen depends on where you're observing from.

But that theory is as valid as anyother at this point.

An equally valid theory maybe that the universe is the result of an accounting error by a very tired accountat at month end on some other plain of existence.

Edit: Did I say at this point enough?
 
dask said:
Just to be clear: "So saying that the universe 'came from nothing' is purely your belief" is not my belief and I do not recall ever saying it was.
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Sorry, I dashed off the reply quickly - but just meant it in the general sense of anyone who believes that, not that you specifically believe that. In fact you said the opposite, that you can't believe it. ;):whistle::p
 
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Thats just it , I don' want to live this exact exact life over again.

I have many regret and things I wish I could have done differently. One moment in particular that I wish I could have back I walked away from the woman who was I think was the one for me . How do know? I just know that's all. If all of this repeat, I won't get to change that one. :(
 
BAYLOR said:
Thats just it , I don' want to live this exact exact life over again.

I have many regret and things I wish I could do differently. One moment in particular that I wish I could have back I walked away from the woman who was I think was the one for me . How do know? I just know that's all. If all of this repast I won't get to change that one. :(
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Ditto, my friend.
 
Cathbad said:
Ditto, my friend.
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If only we could be granted a split second or more to see the alternative and act on them, That at least would be solace . Who knows? maybe we can actually change certain things the next time around.:)
 
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Venusian Broon said:
Sorry, I dashed off the reply quickly - but just meant it in the general sense of anyone who believes that, not that you specifically believe that. In fact you said the opposite, that you can't believe it. ;):whistle::p
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I thought you might have been using the editorial "you" but my wife was nagging me to hurry up so the way I had my response worded in my head didn't make its way onto the keyboard. Sorry about that but when you gotta go you gotta go.
 
Dave said:
Okay, when you accidentally drop a piece of toast why does it always fall with the buttered side down?
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I am fascinated by this thread so far. I'd like you all to know about my Anti-Gravity device: Toast always lands buttered side down, and cats always land on their feet, so strap a piece of toast buttered side up to the bottom of a cat, and there you have it! Anti-Gravity! (or maybe the cat would just keep spinning in the air?) :D
 
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