Lets Talk About Things Science Cannot Explain

Here's my problem with UFOs.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - Douglas Adams

Question 1: How far away are the aliens? Are they only a few light years away? If so, maybe - maybe - they have access to high-powered telescopes that can detect life here on Earth - if they're even looking in our direction. And why would they be?

If they're hundreds of light years away, then when they look into their telescopes, they're seeing the Middle Ages, or earlier. Why would an advanced space faring civilization want to go visit that era of human history? Or do they have some way to extrapolate the future of humanity to calculate the probability of where our civilization will be when they finally arrive?

Question 2: How far away are the aliens? Yes, same question. Assuming they saw us through telescopes (or whatever) and liked what they saw, and had a means to get here, then:

If they're only a few light years away, do they get here using some advanced sub light speed propulsion that gets them here in less than a lifespan? What are the chances of that happening? Why would they spend the resources to do that? And if they're that close, then why haven't we definitively detected them yet?

If they're hundreds of light years away, have they developed FTL? If not, are they using slower than light tech? Generation ships? Cryosleep? Why would a civilization spend such a huge amount of resources just to say hello to a random blue green world so very far away?

If they HAVE developed FTL, then how do they get over the "arriving before the event you're seeing in your telescope" problem? A civilization that is 100 light years from us looks through their telescopes and sees the year 1916. They go FTL, and arrive in 50 years - in 1866. This opens up a problem with FTL generally, but that's for another time.

So the ultimate question is this:

How does an alien civilization ultimately see us now and get to us now?
Even aliens could detect us and be motivated to visit, that time lag between what they could observe and what might still exist seems like an insurmountable obstacle to interstellar travel, no matter how that might be accomplished.

I have no doubt that aliens exist. As was twice stated in the surprisingly philosophical film, Contact, if Humanity is alone in the Universe, it would be “an awful waste of space.”

Life and the evolutionary process must have taken place on billions of planets. Because chances of success fall within a very narrow band of environmental conditions, the millions of species which eventually rose to dominate their planets, I suspect, look a lot like humans.

I believe that intelligent species share a common form – bilateral symmetry, a brain container at one end, appendages protruding from an organ-housing body, and some sort of locomotive apparatus at the other end. How else could we all perform the Macarena?

I don't think that we have ever been visited by aliens. If any of the other planets orbiting Earth's sun once held intelligent life, they are not showing evidence of it now. Mars does not need moms.

Outside Earth's solar system, many species may have landed expeditions on other planets, but none have ventured beyond their own solar systems. As noted. the vast distances between Earth and other life-supporting planets, pose some serious travel restrictions, regardless of whether visitors would be motivated by mere curiosity or dreams of conquest. Although Humankind is not alone in the Universe, it is on its own here on Earth.

So, the bad news, as I see it, is that no super-intelligent, technologically advanced extraterrestrial beings are likely coming to save Humankind from itself. The good news is aliens are not on their way steal our water or round us up for dinner.
 
REBerg, you are presupposing an earth-like timeline where technology is concerned. There may, indeed, be intelligent life in our galaxy, who even now search the galaxy. But the galaxy is vast, and we're located on a nondescript, boring portion of it. We just haven't caught their interest, yet.

Personally, I think we might be one of the more advanced species in the galaxy, and since we haven't made it out there yet, who coud have?
 
I want desperately to believe there is other life out there but with our current knowledge the only way I can believe such is with the application of faith exactly the same as in faith in the existence of a god. The thing is that we have precisely one verifiable instance of abiogenesis - that is the creation of life from non-living matter. We have never found a single second instance of abiogenesis not one. If/when we find a second instance I will be convinced that there are billions of life forms out there (intelligence is a whole different question) but so long as we only have one instance of abiogenesis there is nothing except assumption to suggest that it is anything more than a unique occurrence.

So far all evidence to date indicates that all life on Earth is related. In other words all life on Earth can theoretically be traced back to one single event; the first time a cell reproduced. It is possible there have been other abiogenesis events that have been out competed by the one of which we are part but no evidence has ever been found for such.

So long as our sample is restricted to one it is pure unsupported assumption to believe that means the universe should be teeming with life.

I want desperately to believe in other life but so far there is no statistical evidence to suggest it is even likely.
 
I want desperately to believe in other life but so far there is no statistical evidence to suggest it is even likely.

Actually, the theory of "Chance" is evidence. If an event happened once, it is liable, over time, to happen again. The chances of extraterrestrial life are, in fact, so high, that the only way to disbelieve it exists is an act of extreme faith (again, we're not talking about intelligent life, just life).

Life is not an event that happens on a regular basis, of course. The chances of such an event are miniscule (except over great periods of time), which makes it highly unlikely we would have found evidence. And, given our level of research capability on the subject, I'd say it was currently a virtual impossibility to find life out there.
 
Liable but not certain. Give me a second example and I'll believe. I simply do not believe any assumptions can reasonably be made on the basis of a sample of one.
 
I agree and it's not just down to statistics there's all the other factors:

Galactic centres are likely too subject to massive levels of radiation.
Outer galactic reaches too young and therefore low in heavier elements
The privileged, stable environment we have on Earth that is very amenable to life - caused by factors such as the stabilising influence of our moon (dampens axial wobble), low axial tilt giving stable climate, protective magnetosphere, atmosphere recycling by plate tectonics and so on. Absence of these factors might not preclude life but they would probably prevent any higher life forms (non microbial).

There is also a time element - there will probably not have been any environments around with sufficient heavier elements for life until quite a long way into the life of the universe. And even once they appeared they would need time to cool down sensibly and acquire sufficient water. I could probably make a good case for the probability of any intelligent life much younger than us (as in more than several million years earlier) being quite unlikely. If we assume that life is common throughout the universe then one of those locations must have been the first. It is conceivable that we are the end result of that first one!!!!
 
REBerg, you are presupposing an earth-like timeline where technology is concerned. There may, indeed, be intelligent life in our galaxy, who even now search the galaxy. But the galaxy is vast, and we're located on a nondescript, boring portion of it. We just haven't caught their interest, yet.
I don't think our solar system currently holds any surviving intelligent lifeforms (possibly including ours ;)). The galaxy? Certainly. The Universe? Absolutely.

Personally, I think we might be one of the more advanced species in the galaxy, and since we haven't made it out there yet, who coud have?
That's a frightening thought. We're the best of a bad lot? :p
 
I don't think our solar system currently holds any surviving intelligent lifeforms (possibly including ours ;)). The galaxy? Certainly. The Universe? Absolutely.

That's a frightening thought. We're the best of a bad lot? :p
My final comment was the suggestion that we might be the first intelligent life in the Universe. After all, assuming more than one genesis, someone still has to be the first! And, in the timescales of the evolution of the universe, it is still very very young.
 
My final comment was the suggestion that we might be the first intelligent life in the Universe. After all, assuming more than one genesis, someone still has to be the first! And, in the timescales of the evolution of the universe, it is still very very young.
If we are the first, we had better get serious about not becoming the last. We don't want to let the Universe down. :)
 
Well of course that's the other question isn't it? If we are typical of intelligent life then it's quite possible that the average lifetime of a technological civilisation (I'm talking at the species level here not the cultural level) might be measurable in hundreds or at most thousands of years. Which then makes the chances simultaneity with other civilisations vanishingly small.
 
Well of course that's the other question isn't it? If we are typical of intelligent life then it's quite possible that the average lifetime of a technological civilisation (I'm talking at the species level here not the cultural level) might be measurable in hundreds or at most thousands of years. Which then makes the chances simultaneity with other civilisations vanishingly small.
That's what I keep thinking we might eventually discover on Mars -- evidence of an advanced civilization that was wiped out by environmental factors or destroyed itself.
On a more optimistic note, we might find that they were able to escape the environmental destruction of their planet by leaving. Even more optimistically, they left instructions for us to do the same.
 
Outer galactic reaches too young and therefore low in heavier elements
I'm sure there are planets as you have described here. But, I would remind you that we are on a remote spiral, at the "outer galactic reaches" of the Milky Way. ;)
 
That's what I keep thinking we might eventually discover on Mars -- evidence of an advanced civilization that was wiped out by environmental factors or destroyed itself.
On a more optimistic note, we might find that they were able to escape the environmental destruction of their planet by leaving. Even more optimistically, they left instructions for us to do the same.

Great basis or a story! ;)

But leaving would be the best thing we could do for this planet.
 
I CALL SHOTGUN!!
Sure, if you want to get all cozy with the pilot, a member of the a sluglike species having having "as much sex appeal as a road accident," I won't stand in your way. I would book first class passage for myself and leave the driving to the pair of you. :lol:
 
Sure, if you want to get all cozy with the pilot, a member of the a sluglike species having having "as much sex appeal as a road accident," I won't stand in your way. I would book first class passage for myself and leave the driving to the pair of you. :lol:

Hmmm... lemme rethink this...
 

Similar threads


Back
Top