Harnessing the community

Oh well sorry I was oblivious to the fact that some people only take from this community.::

Everyone is welcome to join in if they give back to this community the same, or more than they expect in return. It is sad that a few people only expect to take from this community, or they cannot accept that criticism, when freely given, and feel a need to complain about it elsewhere.

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::I'll keep my eyes open for that.

As for tough love I don't see that here as much as people trying their best to give good advice. It's not like they need some sort of intervention.
 
The kind of people Dave is talking about are the reason we have the 30 post rule before new members can post something in Critiques, tinkerdan. If you had joined before we made that rule, you wouldn't have had to keep your eyes open long!
 
Actually; way back before everything was reformatted; I took the time to carefully read every post in the critique forum from when this forum had a different name and I think I have a full grasp of what you are talking about.

I just don't particularly agree with using tough love when it's sanctioned as an excuse for poor behavior.

Personally I learn more by doing critiques and watching other people critique. Spending some time trying to figure out what really doesn't work in someone else work always makes me more careful when I go back to do my own. I really do not find reading and critiquing as being a waste of my time. [In fact I'm taking more advantage of them than they are of me.] What does waste my time is when someone gives poor or bad advice and I have to spend the afternoon trying to figure out if there is any merit at all in their nonsense. But that's another story.

Also after a while it makes reading critiques on Amazon an easy task; once you come to recognize what parts are sheer nonsense.

I came here for the basic reason of helping hone my critique skills.
I've done reviews on Amazon for a number of years now and have even had authors send me ARC copies. I've had no problem reviewing those for them and in many cases that's all the correspondence I have with those authors. In some few cases there have been some reciprocal reviews. I think we manage to keep it on fair and balanced level.

I've even had one author who spent quite a bit of time to email me their in-depth thoughts about my work; that they felt a published review offered neither time nor a correct forum without giving too many spoilers.[And perhaps because tough love-the real tough love-doesn't necessitate or even come off very well in a public forum.]

But I will admit that if someone feels they are unable to give a fair review on either end of the star scale then it probably is to the best that you don't try to help anyone out by doing one.

Tough love among friends has true meaning in that there is something at stake for all parties.

Tough love among strangers is mostly no love lost.
 
IMO, the best way to harness the community is to create interesting discussions. Teresa Edgerton did a great job of this by writing various brilliant articles about writing and publishing. While she may have more experience than many here, that doesn't mean to say that people should just sit on their hands and wait, hoping that the world will owe them in time - get writing about what you're passionate about, especially on subjects that readers and writers can engage with. :)

ADDED: And do book reviews. And interviews with authors you've read and enjoyed, or meet at cons!

ADDED 2: And if you go to cons, write a report on it!

ADDED 3: And if you work with an agent and publisher, interview them!

ADDED 4: And then link to what you post here from your blog/website/Twitter/Facebook account!
 
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There are the traditional 4 P's of marketing....they are:
  • Product - your book (Springer is right in saying this should be as good as you can make it).
  • Promotion - where you should advertise
  • Price - what is your price points
  • Place - Distribution (ebook, online, traditional bookshops etc.)

If you only focus on one of these avenues then your sustainability as a writer will be greatly diminished. What a publisher essentially does is help out with the Product (via editors etc.) and takes control of the other three....particularly place in the traditional world. As a writer, you have effectively outsourced these items.....but I believe that what you will actually find is that many of them bounce back down to you.

What I'm personally wrestling with is promotion....and making sure that it is scalable. Maybe I'm wrong but going down to my local bookstore and trying to convince them to take my book on consignment seems to be a waste of time.
I also don't want to spend any money on promoting my book.....I'd rather think creatively and then use the sales for any other promotional efforts that cost money.

What I'm trying to do now is:
1. Leverage my business relationships into selling 100's of books at a time. For instance, I sponsor a conference in the Internet industry and I expect something in return.....maybe every conference attendee is given a book? Still working through this one.
2. I'm finding that tweeting actually has an impact on traffic to my author's site....I'm now attempting to track this back to sales conversions.
3. The big one is to form strategic alliances with other companies that could use my book as a promotional tool for their products and services. I've started heading down this path and reached out to a number of them.....it will be interesting to see their response.

At the moment it's really early days for me and in the last two weeks I've only achieved 100 sales (it's really small....) but I'm learning a LOT about the industry. The big challenge is to capture this data into actionable steps for future book releases.

What I am discovering is the self-published marketplace is really fragmented with a lot of people who can write but don't have the experience on the other P's. Many of them are hoping and praying for a publisher to pick up their works. I personally believe that the odds of this happening is pretty slim.....there is a massive oversupply of material that the publishers can pick their way through and selecting a new author is unlikely to happen. Remember I didn't say....wasn't going to happen as Jo has just been picked up. :)

Here's my philosophy of life.....if I help others then ultimately it will help me....I'm a firm believer in this principle. When I reach my 100 posts I am more than willing to help people out with promoting their book on my author website. I think that if we can help each other beyond the first P then many of us have the potential to develop some exciting new careers.
 
It can happen - being picked up. But it took five years, more rejections than I could count and six books to get to that point. I wonder if all sp want to wait that long? And for each of those five years/6 books I improved as a writer.

On the ratings note - I got my first review last night, a 3-star It's terrrifying, more than I expected. But the review is detailled and well thought out and it gives me things to think about. It reflects the feel of the book - no one reading it is going to be expecting something light and fluffy. It makes it clear what the reviewer didn't, personally, like, and what they did. I think that sort of review is much more useful than a 5star one line review. Although, looking up the thread, 3 stars would stop some even looking at the book so, sadly, the valuable review might end up, on paper, being an impediment. And I think that is a problem.
 
I'm one of those who are put off by three stars or less, but only if there are lots of reviews. I'm not going to be influenced because a few people rate a book low. If there are only a handful of reviews, and I am interested in the book, then I'll read the reviews and base my decision on what they say, not how they rate the book. But if there are dozens of reviews, I am obviously not going to read them all, and that's when I will be influenced by the average number of stars. But even then, I may look at all the ones and fives (if that's not dozens of reviews) to find out the things that people react to the most strongly.
 
sponsor a conference
my book as a promotional tool

What you're missing is targeting - much as we'd all love everyone who ever reads fiction to love our own fiction, you ideally need to find a way to target existing SFF genre readers more directly.

The business community is a great place to promote business products, but probably not SFF ones. If you want to giveaway books at conventions, you're better off doing that at SFF ones.
 
that's a pretty decent *** review, Jo. could it be a five-star three-star review? :D
 
that's a pretty decent *** review, Jo. could it be a five-star three-star review? :D
:D yeah, that's what I'm sort of saying - this is a good review, it's more use to a potential purchaser than a generic 5, it makes it clear who would like the book and why.

@Teresa Edgerton - yes I think average rating is a different tool than an individual review. :)
 
There are the traditional 4 P's of marketing....they are:
  • Product - your book (Springer is right in saying this should be as good as you can make it).
  • Promotion - where you should advertise
  • Price - what is your price points
  • Place - Distribution (ebook, online, traditional bookshops etc.)

But that's a very important point to raise - that it's not simply about promotion.
 
What you're missing is targeting - much as we'd all love everyone who ever reads fiction to love our own fiction, you ideally need to find a way to target existing SFF genre readers more directly.

The business community is a great place to promote business products, but probably not SFF ones. If you want to giveaway books at conventions, you're better off doing that at SFF ones.
Here's a few thoughts....
1. Targeting is good but right now I need sales to climb the Amazon ladder.....that will ultimately increase sales as the Amazon algorithm goes to work. The business segment that I target happens to also contain a large constituency of SFF lovers. I have no intention of giving away my book...each one must be acquired through Amazon. I don't actually believe you are selling anything if you give it away......although there is a time for freebies as well.
3. One of the reasons why I don't promote my createspace shop (even though I receive higher royalties through them) is that I need to ensure that all sales are clocked up at Amazon.
 
Targeting is good but right now I need sales to climb the Amazon ladder.....that will ultimately increase sales as the Amazon algorithm goes to work.

That will only give you a temporary boost. Amazon is always updating its numbers. In the end, what sells a book is word-of-mouth, and what starts word-of-mouth is getting the book into the hands of the people who are going to like it and talk about it. That means targeting sales and giveaways (for those who do them), and if you are lucky one of those people who read your book and love it will be someone that a lot of people listen to. For science fiction, it might be someone who is already a popular and respected member of the community. For fantasy, if GRRM says on one of his forums that he likes a book, that is probably good for tens of thousands of sales. One can't plan on the occasional phenomenal luck that comes to a writer, like Rosie O'Donnell mentioning the first Harry Potter on her talk show. The book was already doing very well, but you can imagine how the sales went through the roof because millions of people heard her rhapsodizing about how much she loved the book and recommending that everyone bought it.

If there are discussions about your books that attract a lot of people, that's going to bring in sales. Even if there are readers saying they hate your book it may pique the curiosity of other readers who want to know what the fuss is about. The very fact that there is a lot of conversation is good. On a forum like this one, it's nice to have discussion, but it has to spread outward and outward from there.

Some books are easier to promote than others. Writers of YA and children's books can go into the schools. Teachers love to have writers speak to their classes. If the writer has a good presentation that inspires kids to read more, or one that gets children interested in writing, word will spread and he or she will be in demand. Mark Robson (who used to be an active member here) did a lot to promote his self published books by visiting schools. He did a lot of other things that were effective, too, but that was one of the more effective, I think. (I believe that Christopher Paolini also visited a lot of schools.) And the result of all his efforts was that he built up sales of his SP books to the point where he was offered a contract for his next series by a major publisher.

If there is something central to your book that will appeal to a particular community, then that gives you a way to promote. For instance, if you write a murder mystery where the crime takes place at a dog show, the victim is one of the judges, and the amateur detective is a breeder, you can sell the book at dog shows, advertise it in their newsletters, etc.
 
Jo's book is being published by Tickety Boo Press, which was started by @Gary Compton from this community to help other members of the community.

My own publishing company Kraxon Publishing was also set up with the same goal of helping other members of the community in mind.

Someone who buys Jo's book could find other books published by TBP such as Oracle by Susan Boulton or many others.

Jo also has short stories published on Kraxon Magazine. Readers who like her work could follow links to the magazine and find other authors and their books such as Shuttered by Emma Jame (E.J. Tett).

What I'm getting at is you can submit to magazines or anthologies to get your name out there.
 
And, especially, vehicles like Kraxon which publish the stories without charge to the reader - so much more acessible and lends itself to authors putting links into bios etc.
 

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