It's about fiction writing - your translator will need to know the nuances of that. It may be helpful to you as well.
Appreciate that we are simply trying to provide you with helpful, constructive feedback.
Quality of the translation (1400 words)
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It's about fiction writing - your translator will need to know the nuances of that. It may be helpful to you as well.
Appreciate that we are simply trying to provide you with helpful, constructive feedback.
HareBrain,
Editing a big novel (or, even worse, several big novels) to adapt it to another language means fully rewriting the book. To do it, I'd need to quit my job and concentrate exclusively on the process. No way.
However, in fact, I'm already following the procedure you've described. I'm making draft translations on my own, and the translator uses it to understand what I intended to say. While doing it, I try to rewrite and adapt the text as needed. My translation of the first novel was terrible as my command of the English language was much worse than now. However, the translation of the second and third book in the series seem to be better. They possibly can be line-edited with much less efforts, but now it's too early to speak about it.
As it takes me a year to make such a translation of a single book, re-translating and re-adapting the first book from scratch is not an option. We have to stick to the current text. In addition, keep in mind that the translation process is very expensive, so I'll have to find some kind of sponsorship for processing the next books as soon as possible. Without a finished sample, I can't do it irrespective of what kind of sponsorship it could be.
Editing a big novel (or, even worse, several big novels) to adapt it to another language means fully rewriting the book. To do it, I'd need to quit my job and concentrate exclusively on the process. No way.
However, in fact, I'm already following the procedure you've described. I'm making draft translations on my own, and the translator uses it to understand what I intended to say. While doing it, I try to rewrite and adapt the text as needed. My translation of the first novel was terrible as my command of the English language was much worse than now. However, the translation of the second and third book in the series seem to be better. They possibly can be line-edited with much less efforts, but now it's too early to speak about it.
As it takes me a year to make such a translation of a single book, re-translating and re-adapting the first book from scratch is not an option. We have to stick to the current text. In addition, keep in mind that the translation process is very expensive, so I'll have to find some kind of sponsorship for processing the next books as soon as possible. Without a finished sample, I can't do it irrespective of what kind of sponsorship it could be.
I do greatly appreciate it. However, my writing skills are good enough to let me write similar articles myself (in my language, of course
), and the translator can't do anything with the content of the book.I found no problems with the translation or the italics. It was clear throughout as to what was going on.
I found myself sympathizing with the girl and her parents. You captured the poignancy of this situation very well. Maybe too well, the last paragraph especially seemed downright bleak, did you mean it to appear that way?
I found myself sympathizing with the girl and her parents. You captured the poignancy of this situation very well. Maybe too well, the last paragraph especially seemed downright bleak, did you mean it to appear that way?
JoanDrake,
Thank you for your opinion.
Actually, the last paragraph is not last. It's only a logically consistent sub-episode of a big episode. To conform to the rules of the forum, I had to cut off the rest. Immediately after that her real adventure starts: the landlord who kicked her out of his house, a lone walk up a hill street, shining stars on the black-velvet dome of the sky, a mysterious but nice and kind stranger, a deserted hotel in an old grove as a temporary refuge... It's a very long story, sometimes sad and cruel but mostly cheerful and optimistic.
Thank you for your opinion.
Actually, the last paragraph is not last. It's only a logically consistent sub-episode of a big episode. To conform to the rules of the forum, I had to cut off the rest. Immediately after that her real adventure starts: the landlord who kicked her out of his house, a lone walk up a hill street, shining stars on the black-velvet dome of the sky, a mysterious but nice and kind stranger, a deserted hotel in an old grove as a temporary refuge... It's a very long story, sometimes sad and cruel but mostly cheerful and optimistic.
Denise Tanaka
Denise RobargeTanaka
Japanese based, you say? I know what you mean! My friends tease me for not referring to my husband by his name in conversation. I call him, "the husband." Even at home, I rarely say his name. I call to him, hey Hon, and when talking to my daughters I say, "your dad...." It could be something I picked up from being married to him for 30 years. It's also something my father (from Massachusetts) used to do, that is, give people nicknames and refer to them by anything but their name. He rarely said my mom's name. For most of my life, he started sentences with, "damnit Mother..."
As for your initial question - I don't mind the italics. That makes clear what is the character's thoughts. What is a bit muddled is the mixture of descriptive narration and opinionated narration. (I forget the textbook terms for those things, sorry.) And in some places it is blurred, esp. in the description of the carpet.
Many years ago I read a classic Japanese novel in translation, "Wagahai wa Neko de aru," or "I am a Cat." Of course because the cat cannot speak, the entire novel was a first person narrative with very opinionated description. It flowed very smoothly in English. I don't want to ruin what you've got planned out, but I'd encourage you to experiment with pinning down your narrator's voice.
Finally, as for the pace and flow, I felt comfortable with it. I understand this is going to be a long piece and it's OK to take your time. My only comment is that I don't see any science fiction elements yet.
Denise, thank you for expressing your opinion.
So you're married to a Nihonjin? I believe you would like the book, them. I massively utilized Japanese roots and entire words as characters' names and toponyms. For example, the name 'Tsukka' is based on 'tsuki', the Moon. In addition, "southern" names mostly conform to Japanese pronunciation rules and can be transcribed with kana. Ah, it was fun inventing such names! However, I didn't risk fully implementing the Japanese manner of addressing people. It looks too strange to an untrained European.
BTW, I heard about the "Wagahai wa neko de aru" but didn't read it (still in my long queue of books to be read). However, I read several chapters of "Genji monogatari". Japanese culture offers so many excellent elements for building the scenery!
Well, I don't write SF in the traditional sense of the word. There are no supermen, blazing blasters and huge spaceships. I write fiction about usual people living in almost usual worlds and dealing with unusual problems. I try to write in such a manner that my novel that seems to be SF for us would be usual fiction for people living in my worlds. So there are plenty of SF elements in the text, but they are unobtrusively scattered throughout the book, and none of them were lucky enough to be present in this particular excerpt.
So you're married to a Nihonjin? I believe you would like the book, them. I massively utilized Japanese roots and entire words as characters' names and toponyms. For example, the name 'Tsukka' is based on 'tsuki', the Moon. In addition, "southern" names mostly conform to Japanese pronunciation rules and can be transcribed with kana. Ah, it was fun inventing such names! However, I didn't risk fully implementing the Japanese manner of addressing people. It looks too strange to an untrained European.
BTW, I heard about the "Wagahai wa neko de aru" but didn't read it (still in my long queue of books to be read). However, I read several chapters of "Genji monogatari". Japanese culture offers so many excellent elements for building the scenery!
Well, I don't write SF in the traditional sense of the word. There are no supermen, blazing blasters and huge spaceships. I write fiction about usual people living in almost usual worlds and dealing with unusual problems. I try to write in such a manner that my novel that seems to be SF for us would be usual fiction for people living in my worlds. So there are plenty of SF elements in the text, but they are unobtrusively scattered throughout the book, and none of them were lucky enough to be present in this particular excerpt.
Ray McCarthy
Sentient Marmite: The Truth may make you fret.
That's just one sub-genre of SF anyway, often Space Opera.
I dabble in technical translation, but have never touched fiction (yet ) as the two are completely different and require different skill sets, harebrain's advice sounds about right though, it may seem like a lot of steps, but really it's better to get a good foundation to work with or things will get tough later on, as I found to my woe with ill edited original language texts .
) as the two are completely different and require different skill sets, harebrain's advice sounds about right though, it may seem like a lot of steps, but really it's better to get a good foundation to work with or things will get tough later on, as I found to my woe with ill edited original language texts .marmalade,
Well, in fact I used an incorrect word. My translator specializes both in fiction and in other areas. So "technical" is a wrong definition of his skills. "Mixed" should be a better word.
The problem is, the text can't be rewritten. It's too big and sophisticated, and it's part of 5 novel series. To rewrite it and other novels, I'd have to completely change my writing style and spend several years doing it. That's the last thing I'm intending to do. Not an option.
Well, in fact I used an incorrect word. My translator specializes both in fiction and in other areas. So "technical" is a wrong definition of his skills. "Mixed" should be a better word.
The problem is, the text can't be rewritten. It's too big and sophisticated, and it's part of 5 novel series. To rewrite it and other novels, I'd have to completely change my writing style and spend several years doing it. That's the last thing I'm intending to do. Not an option.
tinkerdan
∞<Q-Satis
I am on the fence about how much I might like this piece.
I think it borders on the dialogue containing a very rigid formalization that for me sticks out almost as a satire or caricature; which defines how I perceive it as a poor translation. But there is that possibility that what you are going for is that mood because of the cultural aspect of the writing. This will likely be fine with all of those who recognize this because many are sticklers about getting this all correct. But it still runs very close to over the top and if it feels that way to those readers they won't be happy. Often getting it wrong or going overboard are major offenses.
I don't have the same reference as those so I'd be a poor judge of what is here and can only say that it seems a bit much.
I'm not sure if that fully satisfies as an explanation for my previous words, but that pretty much sums it.
I think it borders on the dialogue containing a very rigid formalization that for me sticks out almost as a satire or caricature; which defines how I perceive it as a poor translation. But there is that possibility that what you are going for is that mood because of the cultural aspect of the writing. This will likely be fine with all of those who recognize this because many are sticklers about getting this all correct. But it still runs very close to over the top and if it feels that way to those readers they won't be happy. Often getting it wrong or going overboard are major offenses.
I don't have the same reference as those so I'd be a poor judge of what is here and can only say that it seems a bit much.
I'm not sure if that fully satisfies as an explanation for my previous words, but that pretty much sums it.
Um, okay. So what do you want us to comment on? Turning up and asking if something works - given you already know it may be the initial format/style being a barrier - and then saying the style can't change (and I'm with Brian on that one - the realisation our style has/needs to evolve, and rewriting to match that, is part of writing - and I did it for an epic-scope three book series), or that the translator can't change, or that the process can't change, leaves us little to go with crits. My crit remains the same - it reads stilted, translated, and not smooth.
In fact, your posts are smoother. Which makes me wonder why not write it in English. But that may be another impossible parameter in which case I'm out of ideas. Sorry.
Denise Tanaka
Denise RobargeTanaka
Hi, yes, I'm a California girl married for a long time to a man who came from Japan. In this situation, I think it's important to mention my background. It may be affecting my perception of the piece. I have a fairly high tolerance. Notice how I was not so bothered by the slow pace or stilted (stiff/detached/indirect) tone as many of the others here, and that may hinder your book's broad appeal to an English-speaking audience. However, I also wonder how much may be lost in the translation.
As for the genre category? From your comments about integrating the "unusual" elements into the world, it sounds like the contemporary fiction genre called magic realism. I'm not sure if this fits into what I think of as typical urban fantasy? But it might cross-over... hard to know.
es
As for the genre category? From your comments about integrating the "unusual" elements into the world, it sounds like the contemporary fiction genre called magic realism. I'm not sure if this fits into what I think of as typical urban fantasy? But it might cross-over... hard to know.
Could you please elucidate what a "rigid formalization" means in this context? Demonstrate it by example?
The language of the excerpt. In particular, I'd like to understand if such adaptation looks natural for native English speakers.
My style is quite mature and evolved - in my native language. Maybe it can and should be further evolved, but one first need to at least read the source text to make such suggestions. And, sorry, I have no intention to change my style only to better adapt it to one of hundreds of languages existing in the world. I don't want to sound as a foreigner when writing in my native language. Besides, if tomorrow I got the idea to translate my novels into Chinese or Swahili, should I learn that language first and then rewrite my novels again?
Could you please take a couple of sentences that look stilted and not smooth and rewrite them to look natural? Only one condition: any words related to Christian religion ("God", "holy", "hell", "devil" and so on) can't be used.
Any translated text always loses and acquires something. I personally always prefer to read books in their source languages if I know it. However, I believe this text should keep most of its original quality.
Well, the concept of "genre" is different in different cultures. There is no place for real magic in my books, I always stay within the limits of hard SF, and events usually take place in different worlds, not on Earth. However, to me, science fiction is "fiction" first and only then "science". On my planet, my genre is defined as "social science fiction", i.e. it's all about people and society. Fictional elements, even if they play a major role in a story, are always secondary to characters and the society.
tinkerdan
∞<Q-Satis
The whole piece: if that dialogue sounds natural to you then were finished, because I can't help you because I don't buy it the way it is.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Sorry, no, I won't be rewording passages as examples - I think some of that has been done/pointed out through the crits, and I have little to add to that. I think Tinkerdan summed it up pretty well - consistently, we've fed back that it doesn't read smoothly, and that was the question asked, I think. several good responses have explained why.
Also, my comment on rewriting had little to do with having to have it translated but that you have said initial style choices prove difficult to translate. My suggestion was that the style choices may need looked at, irrelevant of the translation.
As an example of excellent translated works, if it helps, I'd mention that Carlos Ruiz Zafon's does an outstanding job.
several good responses have explained why.Also, my comment on rewriting had little to do with having to have it translated but that you have said initial style choices prove difficult to translate. My suggestion was that the style choices may need looked at, irrelevant of the translation.
As an example of excellent translated works, if it helps, I'd mention that Carlos Ruiz Zafon's does an outstanding job.
Ray McCarthy
Sentient Marmite: The Truth may make you fret.
The Shadow of the Wind & The Prince of Mist (both translated Lucia Graves)
I preferred The Shadow of the Wind but both good translations.
Others I think are translations to English and good
Name of the Rose (I have some others of his)
3 x Jostien Gaardner
Cornelia Funke (five books?, I've 4)
Markus Heitz "dwarves" series
I have a number of books also translated to English that are for young kids.
Amazingly Kazuo Ishiguro appears to write in English. He reads like an English Author.
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