The beginning of a novel. Need your opinion!

[Loren]

I have to disagree with this. If you can see it, you can hear it. You would feel it in the earth as well. A car crash can be heard for blocks. At least a kilometer. We had a gas main go up and heard it from two miles off on the other side of the village. They were talking of the report of sound from as far away as the next city.
My first thought when I heard something or see something like that is people died today.
I wouldn't have described her as disappointed, but more - cast adrift. The horror she held inside of the plane had to be shared somehow to make it real.. That way it would stop hurting.

Nice story! I see what you are going for, and it just needs a bit of work.

I think that it depends on the size/type of the plane, the distance, and the terrain. Also, determining the actual flight path can be deceptive as the apparent distance can be much further than you think.

Sound also travels at 340 m/s, so something 4 kilometers away would take almost 12 seconds to reach you, if it isn't suppressed by terrain and weather.

We live about 50 km from NASA and some days we hear the launch and it even vibrates the house. Other days you can't. We can certainly see those launches if clouds permit.

A small private plane may not make much of a show if it hit the ground. A 737 would be a different story.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I assumed the plane hadn't crashed... if it has crashed, that needs to be made more obvious, I think.

I've never heard a plane crash, but I've heard bombs going off and they're pretty audible up to about 20 miles.

 

[Jackie Bee]

Be warned. I have teeth. Comments in bold

Thanks Jo! I must say I always like your comments in the critics section, so I was hoping you would show up and have your say Nice advice, I'll try to tighten things up.
I'm a bit surprised people keep noticing that Grace's reaction is shallow. I meant her to be that way-some people are shallow, and not everybody react the same way...but maybe I shall change it if it stands out as a writing problem and not just a character trait...

 

[Loren]

Thanks Jo! I must say I always like your comments in the critics section, so I was hoping you would show up and have your say Nice advice, I'll try to tighten things up.
I'm a bit surprised people keep noticing that Grace's reaction is shallow. I meant her to be that way-some people are shallow, and not everybody react the same way...but maybe I shall change it if it stands out as a writing problem and not just a character trait...

She can be shallow or even aloof about this, but as long as she is likable in some way from the reader's perspective you should be golden.

 

[Jackie Bee]

I assumed the plane hadn't crashed... if it has crashed, that needs to be made more obvious, I think.

I've never heard a plane crash, but I've heard bombs going off and they're pretty audible up to about 20 miles.

The plane crashed, but it was only one of many things happening-half the city were dead from the virus by the end of the chapter...so it eventually turned out to be a 'small' episode in comparison...

 

[Loren]

The plane crashed, but it was only one of many things happening-half the city were dead from the virus by the end of the chapter...so it eventually turned out to be a 'small' episode in comparison...

We haven't even breeched this subject, but have you considered the issues and mechanisms a virus or plague might spread?

One of my friends worked for a state government reviewing such circumstances and the consequences. I didn't get a lot details on what she knew, but there is a lot to the scenario and how governments plan to act.

The rate of the spread of the virus and how fast symptoms appear are important factors. The sooner the symptoms manifest, the easier it is to contain, but a lot depends on the mechanism of transmission, too. It's a wild subject.

 

[Mad Alice]

You could actually use that. They would be trying to contain the vector of contagion possibly by police cars screeching to a halt and cordoning off shopping malls, public transit. She would have bypassed most of that in being a pedestrian. You could have her envying the teens cell phones. Perhaps hers was damaged somehow? Left behind? Stolen?
What unplugged her from her information network?
Does she listen to radio? Would a TV left on suddenly switch to an emergency broadcast station?
Has she deliberately unplugged herself because of an upset?

 

[Jackie Bee]

You could actually use that. They would be trying to contain the vector of contagion possibly by police cars screeching to a halt and cordoning off shopping malls, public transit. She would have bypassed most of that in being a pedestrian. You could have her envying the teens cell phones. Perhaps hers was damaged somehow? Left behind? Stolen?
What unplugged her from her information network?
Does she listen to radio? Would a TV left on suddenly switch to an emergency broadcast station?
Has she deliberately unplugged herself because of an upset?

Maybe I'll make one of her work mates ask her something like 'don't you listen to a radio in your car?' Anyway, the news of the virus just started to spread so a person could easily not know about them yet.

 

[Michael M]

I feel there is a lack of drama in the opening until the final sentences.

I would suggest that Grace witnesses a series of events that become ever more weird during the day. I do not wish to rewrite your opening, but I was wondering whether or not you could gradually increase the scale of improbability.

For example, she walks out of her house/flat in the morning and a dead woman is lying in the street. There are bystanders and some has called an ambulance. Grace is shocked and slightly upset, but she's going to be late for work and there is nothing she can do, so on she goes. People do die in the street. It is sad, but not very unusual.

A car has crashed. The driver (a woman) appears to be dead. A strange coincidence, but people crash their cars everyday in a big city. More bystanders, and (again) there is nothing she can do, so on she goes to work.

Then we have the plane. I remain confused why we do not see the plane go down. Perhaps the plane can fly very low over the city, one of the engines is ablaze or the plane is rolling and shifting. Then you would hear it before you see it. You just need to know that the plane is in trouble. Now Grace is really unsettled, but she goes to work. The plane was very unusual, and will probably be the main topic of the day in her office.

Grace arrives at work and people are anxiously looking at their computer screens. I am not sure you managed to create a sense of menace with people around the computers. Then, Grace's strange morning gets even stranger.

I like the idea of the crashing plane, but I am not sure you have delivered sufficient impact before the really cool revelation about the virus.

I hope you do not mind this posting. I like the general idea, and I am just throwing some new ideas into your pot.

Good luck.

 

[Loren]

I feel there is a lack of drama in the opening until the final sentences.

I would suggest that Grace witnesses a series of events that become ever more weird during the day. I do not wish to rewrite your opening, but I was wondering whether or not you could gradually increase the scale of improbability.

For example, she walks out of her house/flat in the morning and a dead woman is lying in the street. There are bystanders and some has called an ambulance. Grace is shocked and slightly upset, but she's going to be late for work and there is nothing she can do, so on she goes. People do die in the street. It is sad, but not very unusual.

A car has crashed. The driver (a woman) appears to be dead. A strange coincidence, but people crash their cars everyday in a big city. More bystanders, and (again) there is nothing she can do, so on she goes to work.

Then we have the plane. I remain confused why we do not see the plane go down. Perhaps the plane can fly very low over the city, one of the engines is ablaze or the plane is rolling and shifting. Then you would hear it before you see it. You just need to know that the plane is in trouble. Now Grace is really unsettled, but she goes to work. The plane was very unusual, and will probably be the main topic of the day in her office.

Grace arrives at work and people are anxiously looking at their computer screens. I am not sure you managed to create a sense of menace with people around the computers. Then, Grace's strange morning gets even stranger.

I like the idea of the crashing plane, but I am not sure you have delivered sufficient impact before the really cool revelation about the virus.

I hope you do not mind this posting. I like the general idea, and I am just throwing some new ideas into your pot.

Good luck.

The problem with that scenario is that once a few people start turning up dead, red flags are going to be thrown everywhere and you will have agencies like the CDC and possibly domestic terrorism units on top of the city like butter on toast.

The news would get out pretty fast (news media just loves shock value news), a gradual building to climax is going to be difficult. Then again, the time of incubation and the time from symptoms to the disease runs its course will be a big factor in this.

Just look at the Ebola outbreak. In the US we had a few cases and the news media was having a field day. People were glued to the news and that was just a few cases.

 

[Jackie Bee]

I feel there is a lack of drama in the opening until the final sentences.

I would suggest that Grace witnesses a series of events that become ever more weird during the day. I do not wish to rewrite your opening, but I was wondering whether or not you could gradually increase the scale of improbability.

For example, she walks out of her house/flat in the morning and a dead woman is lying in the street. There are bystanders and some has called an ambulance. Grace is shocked and slightly upset, but she's going to be late for work and there is nothing she can do, so on she goes. People do die in the street. It is sad, but not very unusual.

A car has crashed. The driver (a woman) appears to be dead. A strange coincidence, but people crash their cars everyday in a big city. More bystanders, and (again) there is nothing she can do, so on she goes to work.

Then we have the plane. I remain confused why we do not see the plane go down. Perhaps the plane can fly very low over the city, one of the engines is ablaze or the plane is rolling and shifting. Then you would hear it before you see it. You just need to know that the plane is in trouble. Now Grace is really unsettled, but she goes to work. The plane was very unusual, and will probably be the main topic of the day in her office.

Grace arrives at work and people are anxiously looking at their computer screens. I am not sure you managed to create a sense of menace with people around the computers. Then, Grace's strange morning gets even stranger.

I like the idea of the crashing plane, but I am not sure you have delivered sufficient impact before the really cool revelation about the virus.

I hope you do not mind this posting. I like the general idea, and I am just throwing some new ideas into your pot.

Good luck.

Thanks Michael, I like your idea, but I haven't done it gradually because this virus I had in mind spreads via the air and once it's in your area it gets everyone , not one by one. She will later witness it happen at work. There also will be stuck cars with dead drivers later in the chapter. I'm trying to rewrite it now to add more drama and to make Grace more shaken by what she sees...

 

[Michael M]

No problem, Jackie. I'll give you more feedback when you post new material.

Good luck with the revisions.

 

[Dan Jones]

The plane crashed, but it was only one of many things happening-half the city were dead from the virus by the end of the chapter...so it eventually turned out to be a 'small' episode in comparison...

Have to echo the others in saying this is a problem. A plane crash is never a "small" event, even when part of a larger tapestry of events; that's they always make the news, and are genuinely shocking events. The scale of loss of life is huge on plane crashes, and they simply are not that common. If I saw one, I think it would be genuinely shocking.

Plus, I think Grace would hear it. I have to say, I thought the fact that she didn't hear it was part of an intriguing premise (ie the plane disappears, was teleported etc) that would have kept me reading. To have it just fall to the ground with not so much as a puff of wind is just disappointing.

And yet, and yet... this is an outrageously good opening hook. I mean, seriously. Drop the bit about the goofy teens and crank up Grace's levels of shock, and you've got a great opening. But I don't think the plane crash can be swept under the rug so easily; like I say, a plane crash is A Big Event. I'd wager that it would galvanise the other office workers into perhaps piecing the morning's events together in a way that makes more sense. Weird begets weird.

Oh, one last thing (I'm doing a Columbo)... does this have to be a Prologue? It feels much more like a Chapter 1 to me, unless the next Chapter takes place X years into the future. Which had better be good, because it runs the risk of the prologue becoming irrelevant. To wit: if your story is about the onset of apocalypse, then your opening absolutely works. If it's about the world that exists after the apocalypse and how the characters negotiate that (a la The Walking Dead) then spending time on the whys and hows might be perceived as an unnecessary indulgence, no matter how well-written.

 

[Jackie Bee]

Have to echo the others in saying this is a problem. A plane crash is never a "small" event, even when part of a larger tapestry of events; that's they always make the news, and are genuinely shocking events. The scale of loss of life is huge on plane crashes, and they simply are not that common. If I saw one, I think it would be genuinely shocking.

Plus, I think Grace would hear it. I have to say, I thought the fact that she didn't hear it was part of an intriguing premise (ie the plane disappears, was teleported etc) that would have kept me reading. To have it just fall to the ground with not so much as a puff of wind is just disappointing.

And yet, and yet... this is an outrageously good opening hook. I mean, seriously. Drop the bit about the goofy teens and crank up Grace's levels of shock, and you've got a great opening. But I don't think the plane crash can be swept under the rug so easily; like I say, a plane crash is A Big Event. I'd wager that it would galvanise the other office workers into perhaps piecing the morning's events together in a way that makes more sense. Weird begets weird.

Oh, one last thing (I'm doing a Columbo)... does this have to be a Prologue? It feels much more like a Chapter 1 to me, unless the next Chapter takes place X years into the future. Which had better be good, because it runs the risk of the prologue becoming irrelevant. To wit: if your story is about the onset of apocalypse, then your opening absolutely works. If it's about the world that exists after the apocalypse and how the characters negotiate that (a la The Walking Dead) then spending time on the whys and hows might be perceived as an unnecessary indulgence, no matter how well-written.

Thanks for the crits (and the kind words, too I am going to make Grace more shocked, remove the conversation with the teens and add some noise of the crash. (Not that I know what it sound like... found on google someone describing a distant plane crash like thunder, I guess I'll use it...)
As for prologue-most of the rest of the book indeed takes place 20 years later, so it's a classic case of prologue, but perhaps I'll call it chapter 1 anyway, since prologues seem to be out of fashion (and disliked by many

 

[pambaddeley]

As there might be a serious fire due to the aviation fuel, perhaps there would be a continuous roar after the initial 'boom' or whatever - see the images on the Shoreham aircrash last year, for example - Shoreham plane crash: Airshow stunts BANNED as limo driver victim named as ex-paratrooper
though it might depend on how far away it is I guess. But I would expect the ground to shake even if only a little.
When the Buncefield disaster happened, there were vibrations hundreds of miles away and freak happenings such as people's loft hatches falling open (I met someone this happened to, and they lived in the next county) so you might also have windows breaking etc, depending on how big an aeroplane it is and the way the shock travels and what is in between etc.

 

[Jackie Bee]

As there might be a serious fire due to the aviation fuel, perhaps there would be a continuous roar after the initial 'boom' or whatever - see the images on the Shoreham aircrash last year, for example - Shoreham plane crash: Airshow stunts BANNED as limo driver victim named as ex-paratrooper
though it might depend on how far away it is I guess. But I would expect the ground to shake even if only a little.
When the Buncefield disaster happened, there were vibrations hundreds of miles away and freak happenings such as people's loft hatches falling open (I met someone this happened to, and they lived in the next county) so you might also have windows breaking etc, depending on how big an aeroplane it is and the way the shock travels and what is in between etc.

I was thinking of Grace being at one end of a large city, and the plane falling behind the city limits at the other side of it--pretty far, in other words. Interesting idea about the vibrations of the ground, if it can be felt from a distance of hundreds of miles, then she would probably feel it, too. As for the roar of the fire, she probably wouldn't hear it, given there is a whole city between her and the site of the crash...

 

[Temaran]

Hello!

An interesting read for sure!
I got a strong vibe of the old comic book "Y: The Last Man"

but the other way around in the last paragraphs, but I truly wonder what a post apoc scenario with almost only men would look like. Probaby preeeeetty scary

When reading the text though, in the first paragraphs, I have to admit I was a bit confused about where this was taking place. First I thought it was outside in some field, and it wasn't until about halfway in I realized they must be in some city (with the elevators etc.). Is this intended?

When reading the final paragraphs, I was positively convinced that you would write that one of the side effects of the virus was hallucinations (with the man standing around smiling constantly and no-one reacting to him, that would have been appropriately tragicomedic xD).
I'm not sure if I'm a bit sad or relieved that you didn't though.

Just my feelings on the text

/Temaran

 

[Lex E. Darion]

Nothing new to add to the crits already posted re characterization (although I posted first 5000 words of WIP on another crit site and they pointed out problems with a couple of my characters - mainly that they came across as idiots/unsympathetic etc - which is how I wanted them to be! I think people generally read characters as good or bad and a tiny snapshot of someone doesn't allow for the nastier/flawed people to develop?? (Or maybe it just takes more talent/work to write these type of chs))

Anyhoo, my reason for posting this is I'm intrigued by your use of a prologue. You state you're aware they're not popular with agents/pubs at the mo and that your actual story takes place 20 years in the future, so I'm really curious as to why you've put in the prologue? Is Grace a MC in the future story? Is she the only surviving female and has been turned into some sort of Queen Bee and you're trying to convey what she was like before? If she's not in it then why is she the MC in the prologue?

I guess my actual question is, what information do you feel is necessary for your readers to have before the actual story starts, and why?

P.S Did the plane crash let the virus loose? ie was it being transported on the plane/did the plane crash into a lab (secret or otherwise) that was working on the virus? If not, is the crash important? If not really, then could you lose that bit and start nearer the end of this piece? As William Goldman said, 'get in late, get out early'.

You definitely have the beginnings of a great story - I'm hooked and asking questions Keep it up

 

[Jackie Bee]

You state you're aware they're not popular with agents/pubs at the mo and that your actual story takes place 20 years in the future, so I'm really curious as to why you've put in the prologue? Is Grace a MC in the future story? Is she the only surviving female and has been turned into some sort of Queen Bee and you're trying to convey what she was like before?

Grace is connected to the rest of the story, but she's not crusial. To tell the truth, when I was writing this novel I didn't know prologues were a problem. It basically sets the stage for the post apocalyptic world where the rest of the story takes place, and shows the familuar world falling apart. I think I'll just disguise it as chapter 1...

Did the plane crash let the virus loose? ie was it being transported on the plane/did the plane crash into a lab (secret or otherwise) that was working on the virus? If not, is the crash important?

That is a kind of a question that can be left to the reader's imagination, I think The answer is not really important here (yet). We only know what Grace knows, and it's all a mystery for her...

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Grace is connected to the rest of the story, but she's not crusial. To tell the truth, when I was writing this novel I didn't know prologues were a problem. It basically sets the stage for the post apocalyptic world where the rest of the story takes place, and shows the familuar world falling apart. I think I'll just disguise it as chapter 1...

Personally, given this, I would run a mile from submitting it to an agent with this as the opening. Disguising it as chapter one won't work, either - the reason agents hate prologues is nothing to do with them being called a prologue but:

1. That they put the backstory front and centre. If it's a post apocalyptic world, show us that world, not how it got there. Start the story where it should start, and that's rarely in the history of how the world got to where it is. (There's also a theory that a good writer should be able to get back story in a little cleverly than that...)

2. That the agent/reader is asked to invest in something that isn't, actually, the focus of the novel. Hooking is hard. Why make it harder by having to do it twice?

3. That they slow the pace of an opening down.

Now, I'm not anti prologue - I've used quite a few myself - but they must serve a purpose. And setting up the world is not a strong enough one.

(Also, from a marketing angle - I took my prologue out of Inish Carraig and put it up as a free short story instead. People who've read the book like it because it tells something of the back world, those who haven't are drawn in by it being free and, of course, there's a little link to the novel at the end of it... To date, it's my most read blog entry with hundreds and hundreds of hits...)