Westworld

[Cli-Fi]

i had a thought that Ford is a host. not just the Ford that got killed at the end, but the Ford that has been running the park for the last 35 years. a host being controlled by someone else - Arnold maybe. and that maybe it was Ford that got killed in the Wyatt massacre scene, not Arnold, who has been living with the ghost tribe for the last 30 years. after all, "Arnold" is still doing a lot of coding.

There's also a question of why Ford kills "himself." Even if he just simply killed his host, how would that help Delos profit? He was NOT an integral part of any of the Westworld story lines. None of the characters besides for William would be affected by his death, and I don't think he would even care that much. No one else really even would have known who he was. Except for Bernard and the park staff.

Obviously Delores was programmed to kill Ford either way, but even that doesn't make complete sense to me. Why was Delores the one who ended up killing Ford? It makes me think that Ford doesn't have the power he thinks he has. Since he works directly with the hosts in a manner most CEOs of large companies would never do themselves. Simply killing himself whether staged or not does not seem like a very wise move by a head of any company. Let alone, just to "tell a story."

 

[ctg]

There's also a question of why Ford kills "himself."

He had no life outside. Ford was institutionalised, and the company forcing him out was destroying his life. This is exactly the same thing as happens with the older prisoners. Or to the people who has lived a long time inside a hospital/care-homes/their own homes.

The change would have been too much. This was a way for Ford to go out with a bang and maximize the damage to the corporate.

I believe Bernard's will connect the series.

 

[Cli-Fi]

He had no life outside. Ford was institutionalised, and the company forcing him out is the same thing as what you do to older prisoners. Or to the people who has lived a long time inside a hospital.

The change would have been too much. This was a way for him to go out with a bang and maximize the damage to the corporate. Bernard(s) will connect the series.

But that's the point, obviously Ford didn't have the power to stay. He didn't have the power to stop the BOD of course this is suggesting that Ford or whoever didn't program all of this to happen beforehand.

Also in regards to your theory then William should want to kill himself too. I mean the park affected him way more than it did Ford.

 

[ctg]

LOL, replied while I was still editing.

 

[Nate Hoffelder]

I think Ford enjoyed playing god, and that he would rather die than leave his world.

 

[REBerg]

[QUOTE="Cli-Fi, post: 2093270, member: 3730 William should want to kill himself too. I mean the park affected him way more than it did Ford.[/QUOTE]Transformed him from Dudley Do-Right to Jeffrey Dahmer.
I found such a drastic personality change, even in the space of three decades, difficult to believe. Finding his "real self" seemed like a weak explanation.

 

[Nate Hoffelder]

Basically William changed his alignment from good to evil when his favorite game lost his save point.

But I wouldn't say that he became Dahmer; he just realized that the hosts weren't real people.

 

[SilentRoamer]

I think we will safely see deeper into Arnolds vision of consciousness.

Memory makes the base, then improvisation the next section but he never told us what was at the top of the Pyramid!

I think Ford (the human) is probably dead - although I didn't take this as Ford giving up. I think Ford has been quietly manipulating the hosts into sentience over the past 35 years, well I did think that until I just remembered that Bernard confronted Ford about the Reveries and Ford looked like he had been caught out so maybe someone else is pulling the strings.

Wonder if Delos own all of the Worlds and did Ford have a hand in creating them all? He seemed singularly attached to WestWorld. What on earth did Felix mean by the "it's complicated" line at the end. Is Maeve off story mode or is this all part of her narrative? Remember all that was said about her narrative by Bernard was that she "got off the train" - was that Bernard creating her narrative on the fly?

So many questions but I feel like the series was very, very tight and is actually one that would be worth a re-watch (I hardly rewatch anything due to having very good recall).

I should have a review up on my blog in the next few days. Just mulling over my thoughts on it.

@REBerg William was always a psychopath he just never realized it, douche picked the wrong hat! I had him pegged as the MiB from about 4 episodes in and the episode where he recognized the host that he very first met was the episode that confirmed for me. Same with the dual timelines, I knew that was happening but the inconsistencies didn't make sense to me and I didn't see the show making thos emistakes (the relapses by Dolores tidied that up nicely). This series asks a lot of moral questions about the pain of life and death and suffering and consciousness.

I described this show before as sensationalist whilst also being poignant - not an easy combination to achieve.

 

[SilentRoamer]

But I wouldn't say that he became Dahmer; he just realized that the hosts weren't real people.

Me and my wife have discussed this ad infinitum and we just go round in circles.

As Bernard said what makes his memories less real that anyone else? If something thinks it is human, experiences pain and emotional anguish the same as a human then should they not be treated like a human?

Or are they just basically smart talking Toasties?

The whole morality of the show is super interesting.

Also regarding Williams transformation it is worth remembering that Logan picke dhim to marry his sister as he wasn't a perceived threat outside of WW - Williams change in character also comes from his actions in the outside world, becoming much more scrupulous and treating EVERYONE as he treats the hosts - just pawns to move in his pursuit of the goal.

 

[Nate Hoffelder]

I agree with you about the hosts being human, but I can see why William didn't think so. He saw Delores. She wasn't dead or injured; instead she had been repaired and restored to the beginning of her loop. Nothing he did to her had any effect, so why should he care how the hosts are treated.

I do wonder, though, whether William went evil to protect himself from the grief he felt over his lost love, Delores. He denies hosts' humanity as a way of denying his pain.

It sounds trite, I know, but also very human.

 

[Mister_Oy]

Anyone think there could be some connection between the words DELOS and DELORES?

 

[Nate Hoffelder]

Ooooh, good catch!

Maybe.

 

[REBerg]

Westworld is an elaborate treatment of the question raised so frequently in science fiction, including the recent film Ex Machina and the series Humans: What does it mean to be human?
If things/people we create are physically and mentally indistinguishable from a "real" humans, shouldn't they have the same rights?
In fiction, we mistreat and fear these fictional creations, which makes for thought-provoking entertainment. As we continue progress on AI in the real world, maybe we need to ask ourselves "why"?
The answer should be something more than "because we can."

 

[SilentRoamer]

The Delos / Delores catch is interesting.

Don't know if anyone else spotted this but in the episode where the flashback shows the old field lab it shows Arnold's office, which has a plaque on the door: Arnold Weber. Arnold Weber just happens to be an anagram of Bernard Lowe.

Also I noticed that the female board members name is Charlotte - any relation to Bernards cornerstone around Charlie? Well Charlotte never recognises Bernard as her father but then again - could she be another host?

This show has me question everything. I feel like Felix sometimes **checks body and breathes a sigh of relief** if only I had Maeve to tell me how horrible a human being I was.

 

[Mr Orange]

Also I noticed that the female board members name is Charlotte - any relation to Bernards cornerstone around Charlie? Well Charlotte never recognises Bernard as her father but then again - could she be another host?

now that is interesting... good spot.

i definitely need to watch this all again

 

[Nate Hoffelder]

I don't know that Ford made Charlotte but it would make sense given how he likes to control things.

Yes, that anagram connection was pointed out several weeks before the show confirmed that bernard was a host based on Arnold.

As for Delos/Delores, what do you suppose that William named the company as a reference to Delores?

 

[Nate Hoffelder]

elsie is alive:
[Spoiler] Delosincorporated.com updated after ep 10... • /r/westworld

 

[ctg]

While we won't be getting the second season until 2018, it is already in progress.

In fact, the official Westworld Writers Room is already in their 10th week of working on the script.

In a recent interview with Variety, the showrunners were asked where they were with season 2:

Joy: We’ve started working on scripts and outlines. It’s looking good. It’s looking very ambitious. There’s some surprises and bits of it that you won’t see coming. I’m having fun.

Nolan: It’s an ambitious project, and HBO has encouraged us to take the time and resources that we need to work on each stage of that. I love television. One of the fun things about television is that sometimes you find yourself in this place where you have to wear all these hats at once. You have to write, shoot, and cut simultaneously. We wanted to in the second season spend some more time writing, then switch gears into production, then cut. So we’re not going to follow the annual year-on-year tradition of television. Television’s changing. And the ambition of the project is such that we’re going to take our time to get the second season right.

It's alright, we can wait a little longer for another excellent season of Westworld!

Westworld Season 2: What We Know So Far

 

[REBerg]

I've downloaded the full season for holiday re-watching. I want to give the series a another look, now that I know where it goes.

 

[BAYLOR]

I've downloaded the full season for holiday re-watching. I want to give the series a another look, now that I know where it goes.

It's great television.