Game of Thrones: 8.05 - The Bells

[Toby Frost]

Two interesting articles:

All shows must die: can Game of Thrones avoid curse of the TV finale?

As the light fades on Westeros, with almost inevitable fan disappointment to follow, we look at shows that got their last act right – and those who failed

www.theguardian.com

In the end, Game of Thrones needed better writers

Without George RR Martin, the last seasons of the TV spectacular lost their way, says the Observer columnist and GoT enthusiast

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dave]

All shows must end....

At least, if it has "jumped the shark" (and I'm not one who says that it has,) at least it did it with the penultimate episode. There are many, many shows that continued until long after that, and suffered a withering end. Going out on a high is preferable. I would disagree with some of the TV shows in the link, that supposedly should have finished earlier, but then everyone will never agree. The main difference here, I think, is that people are arguing for more episodes of GoT rather than for less, so that the ending could have been better fleshed out, and all the unfinished stories tied up.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I would disagree with some of the TV shows in the link, that supposedly should have finished earlier

Me too! I snorted at the inclusion of Breaking Bad. Another case of someone bandying around their opinion as statistic-less fact. I’d argue the Guardian has had its day

pH

 

[Dave]

I snorted at the inclusion of Breaking Bad.

It was Breaking Bad that I disagreed with too.

 

[-K2-]

Perhaps, the ending will be just literary series...



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K2

 

[AlexH]

I think that was the guy that had ordered Varys to be made into a eunuch. Serving his punishment.

Unless he turns up in the final episode, it seems odd that he's never appeared again. It was a memorable scene.

 

[Ursa major]

If that man is fed up now...



...he won't be for long....

 

[Al Jackson]

I'm not one of those annoying "I've never watched GOT" people, I'm one of those "by S3 I'd started to read a book while it was on" people.

It just couldn't hold my attention anymore. My fault probably because I didn't follow all the little plots and deals going on.
My wife still watches it and burbles away about what happened the next day to my blank expression.
There again she does the same thing after she watches Coronation Street. (Trying desperately for some social interaction I suppose)

Did you like the Lord of the Rings movies?

 

[Al Jackson]

Two interesting articles:

In the end, Game of Thrones needed better writers

Without George RR Martin, the last seasons of the TV spectacular lost their way, says the Observer columnist and GoT enthusiast

www.theguardian.com

Having read the books I thought Benioff and Weiss did an excellent job seasons 1-4, and a very good job seasons 5-6, tho must admit some puzzlement over fumbling what to do with Dorne (they had enough under their belts so's not to have to have given it the Bums Rush), in the end Arya's story in Braavos was not as interesting as it was in the books.
However I did detect an air of impatience on their parts when the said before season 7 that the story only needed such and such many more hours, I thought season 7 was ok,.... I don't have any complaints about the story in season 8 but man! as many have complained it seems way too rushed , all the more finessed motivations flattened, right now it's got a EVERYBODY GOT RUN OVER BY TRUCK feel to it.

 

[svalbard]

Why the Writing in Season 8 of 'Game of Thrones' Feels Off

It all comes down to the machinations of two very different types of writers.

www.wired.com

This sort of makes sense.

 

[ctg]

If they'd done this in the first place, I would have been totally satisfied. I would have understood why and been quiet. HBO would have got 10/10 from me.

 

[Al Jackson]

Character's left hanging. I doubt there is time in 80 min. to address the status of all characters left alive?
I am thinking all those left at Winterfell will some how , show up?, at KL or what's left of it?
I guess the Dragon Pit could be the meeting place?
I mean everyone who's been on-stage last two episodes must have story. I guess that means Gendry will have a story?
Since Bronn has had an appearance , some story there, tho now Bronn may have shot a blank, Tyrion is probably in the Dog House and Dani does not even know Bronn.
Yara was back on scene in Ep 1, and we know she succeeded in the Iron Islands , it that all of her story? Off stage?
Possibility of Yara, Bronn, Robin Arryn, Edmure Tully being in some kind of gathering.
I guess Meera Reed is out of sight out of mine?

Yohn Royce has been in 3 episodes of season 8 but never at the battles?!

Jaqen H'ghar and The Waif (Faye Marsay) were seen on set in Spain , I don't think they were a fake spoiler but god only know what their role it.

Man is Essos totally forgotten? Daario Naharis was left in charge … I don't know.

Odd that Mark Gatiss said after season 7 he would be back season 8, and then before season 8 said he would not be back.

Hot Pie... I think he will be sneaked in.

Will Nymeria show up again? It is known that the Canada film unit was listed in Ep 2 credits so maybe there was more 'dire wolf' filming?

 

[Mr Orange]

If they'd done this in the first place, I would have been totally satisfied. I would have understood why and been quiet. HBO would have got 10/10 from me.

for me all they needed was one shot of a few singed nervy Lannister archers (surrounded by dead compatriots) on the walls close to Dany training their bows on her, then as the bells ring they unwittingly let loose, a couple of arrows hit Drogon then it's all on. that small thing would have, in my view, been enough for Dany to justify all of KL being against her.

the preview for ep 06 looks bleak...

 

[Darth Angelus]

The most notable thing about this episide was how brilliant Qyburn was at making accurate military assessments, when talking to Tyrion in the previous episode.
”We understand nothing of the sort. Your queen’s last dragon is vulnerable. Your armies are battle-weary and depleted, while ours have been reinforced with the Golden Company.”

Yes, Daenerys’s forces really were up for a major challenge in this episode. A really tough fight. I think you might say Cersei had the upper hand. And the Golden Company proved to be very hard to overcome. The fight between Harry Strickland and the Grey Worm lasted for a very long time, until the Grey Worm was able to - only barely, mind you - slay his foe.


All of the above in this post is sarcasm, of course. Daenerys managed to put her last dragon to good use, and was quickly triumphant overall. The Golden Company was easily dealt with, for Daenerys’s remaining forces. Qyburn’s military assessment proved very inaccurate, to put it mildly, when looking at the actual outcome. I think it safe to say Westeros did not lose one of its great military minds when Gregor Clegane crushed Qyburn’s head later in the episode.

I had no problem with Qyburn being very wrong in this regard. What I did have a problem with was the unnecessary carnage Daenerys caused. When the enemy soldiers surrendered, she didn’t need to burn nearly the entire city, civilans and all. That seemed very excessive. An act of war crime. The kind of stuff Gregor Clegane does, albeit with a dragon.
I understood Daenerys when she burned Randyll and Dickon Tarly, to the point where I thought it acceptable within this world of frankly rather crappy justice, even though I know there were others who hated her character by then. I thought Sansa was unfair to her in this season, and still think so. I even kind of understood why she had Varys executed, because she could not (from her perspective) allow him to spread treasonous whispers about that Jon should be King.
But I just could not accept the needless carnage she caused, and ultimately Varys was vindicated in his belief that Jon would make a better King than Daenerys would make a Queen.

Damm you, Daenerys! Why did you have to go and become a villain at the very end of the series?

 

[ctg]

for me all they needed was one shot of a few singed nervy Lannister archers (surrounded by dead compatriots) on the walls close to Dany training their bows on her, then as the bells ring they unwittingly let loose, a couple of arrows hit Drogon then it's all on. that small thing would have, in my view, been enough for Dany to justify all of KL being against her.

Maybe they'll do a special edition DVD/BL with extended episodes and altered scenes to put in a bit more details and make more sense. I'd imagine they could do this a couple of times, before fans are happy. When they did that with LOTR the movies became cult items. But for the HBO that would mean putting in more money, and as the "showrunners" move to Disney, hiring someone else to do the fixing.

I would love if they'd do a couple of shorts to explain obvious plot holes, like what really happened with Varys.

 

[Mr Orange]

LOTR could do that because they had a lot of scenes on the cutting floor. I wonder if GOT have the same. if so that would be great to put in, although they would need about 10 hours of cut scenes to make some people happy...

wouldn't need any input from the showrunners if it's just adding cut scenes

 

[Brian G Turner]

Well, that was an incredibly dramatic episode!

The killing of Varys seemed a waste - Dany announced herself as queen, while stood next to Jon who everyone present knew was the rightful heir.

The attack on the fleet - out of the sun - was daring, but the dragon bursting through the walls from behind and over the Golden Company was a great moment. The whole tension about ringing the bells was superbly done, and the expressions on the Lannister officer as you could see him deciding to surrender was great.

For a moment, we had the joy of victory - and then the horror of revenge by Dany's forces.

Her dragon attack on the city itself was horrifying and well done for it - we didn't even see Dany, but it's clear she's lost it. I've mentioned in the books how she never seemed to learn how to rule when overseas, and here it's clearly demonstrated that she is not fit to rule, and mustn't be allowed to rule.

The final duel between Gregor and Sandor was brilliant - such a dramatic backdrop, and totally deserving of the fight.

Cersei and Jaime was a little disappointing after all the prophecies of the Valonqar, but c'est la vie.

Thought Arya was a goner and Jon finding her body would make him personally see to the end of Dany's rule. Now Arya has escaped the city, it remains to be seen just how everyone is going to deal with Dany.

Btw, before I watched this I heard a lot of news reporting about people being unhappy with how Game of Thrones went this season, but so far I've thought it was really good - this episode was quite fantastic for its effect - so I'm not sure what the complaints about. Then again, I can start reading this thread now so perhaps I'll get to see.

 

[The Big Peat]

Btw, before I watched this I heard a lot of news reporting about people being unhappy with how Game of Thrones went this season, but so far I've thought it was really good - this episode was quite fantastic for its effect - so I'm not sure what the complaints about. Then again, I can start reading this thread now so perhaps I'll get to see.

The TL-DR summary - A lot of people have major problems with the use of dramatic cause and effect and found this outweighed other considerations. Criticism is less about where things ended up and more about how we got there (although those are intermingled)

 

[Al Jackson]

The TL-DR summary - A lot of people have major problems with the use of dramatic cause and effect and found this outweighed other considerations. Criticism is less about where things ended up and more about how we got there (although those are intermingled)

That was the crux of the problem.
Tho, I did see a lot of unhappiness about the story ending turning into a tragedy and the twisty finish.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Hah! I've read this thread now, and see that a big reaction against GoT was because Dany destroyed King's Landing! Shocking and senseless though it was, I had no trouble believing it was in character. As I said after watching the last episode, the showrunners appeared to be setting up Dany as a reflection of Cersei - not as an opposite, but as the same.

One of my frustrations with Dany's arc in the books is that she never seemed to learn statecraft - she remained impulsive and somewhat petulant - which didn't fit with my expectation that she was supposed to be learning how to become a "just queen" in Westeros.

And since arriving there, instead of the cheering crowds her brother was promised she's been resented, tolerated, and already people are plotting to push her aside. Additionally, she's lost most of her allies, friends, and dragons. Yes, Dany taking her frustrations out on anyone who seemed to stand against her seemed perfectly in character for her and justified in terms of plot.

Btw, I don't agree with the idea that the battle of Winterfell should have come last - IMO the whole premise of Game of Thrones, the novel, was the political struggle between the Starks and the Lannisters, with the undead as a subplot. I think they've definitely got the order right.