The Lord of the Rings - Second Age - Amazon Prime

[farntfar]

Or very long hair, come to that.

I must admit, I find all this long blond hair more reminiscent of Lucius Malfoy than all possible elves.

 

[HareBrain]

I must admit, I find all this long blond hair more reminiscent of Lucius Malfoy than all possible elves.

And given that they're immortal and don't have much to do with their time, why have they not found a way to style it better or give it more body?

 

[paranoid marvin]

First off, I hope we're not expected to take the clip of that game as some sort of canon, which the new series should conform to. Because I would certainly take issue with its authenticity as well.

Second point. The Crawling Chaos, or possibly someone else but I can't find it, point out that as not great Tolkien fans, they have a very different take on what they're expecting. And clearly the series is made for "newbies" as well as we, who have read the books multiple times.
It doesn't mean they can do what they like with Middle-earth, but simply that satisfying us cannot be their only consideration.

I agree wholeheartedly with what Teresa says about Mr. Gore. (I object to the idea of self-styled influencers as a general rule anyway. )

Coming back to Galadriel, I have no objection to her being a warrior at this (some) point in the series, and then becoming disillusioned with fighting and retiring to the hidden land of Lothlorien, where she felt she could preserve some of what was being lost out in the big wide world. It was stated as such in the LOTR; possibly by the new whiter than white Gandalf. (Trust me, but I can't be bothered to look for the quotation.)

Oh. And another thing. Rivendell, and its depiction in the films etc.
I had a very different feeling about Rivendell, its architecture and decor, in the LOTR from that in the Hobbit.
Imladris was far more than the last homely house east of the sea and west of the mountains. So the depiction in the film didn't bother me. (Did it appear in the Hobbit films? I don't remember.)

And lastly, I'm not sure that all of the elves have to have long blond hair. Elrond has long dark hair in the film, and certainly Maiglin's hair is dark in the Silmarillion. But can't some of them have shorter hair without losing their Elfishness? Certain characters I agree with, but I know from experience that long hair can get in the way. (I was never into swordfighting though. Maybe they have a special hairspray for that.)
(I'm also not certain that it was specified by Tolkien that they have pointed ears. I think that trait has been stolen from some other mythology. Please tell me if I'm wrong)

Rivendell looks nothing like the drawings that Tolkien made of it, and is one of the only places in the movies where Jackson's vision isn't the same as mine. Far less a homely house and more of a palace. My recollection of the drawings is that Tolkien had it more like a manor house than a palace. And yes, I agree that Rivendell seems to have grown much more in stature and importance between The Hobbit and LOTR in Tolkien's writings.

Also seem to be far too few trees for a forest dwelling folk?

In relation to ears, I can't remember any description of their shape, although Tolkien does comment on the exceptional hearing of elves. In film , I suppose that seeing elves without pointy ears would probably make them indistinguishable from humans, so it makes sense to do this.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I must admit, I find all this long blond hair more reminiscent of Lucius Malfoy than all possible elves.

Yes, I could imagine Draco Malfoy as the very naughty elf son of Celeborn and Galadriel.

 

[HareBrain]

Incidentally, the best visual representations of Tolkien's elves I've seen were the drawings by Victor Ambrus in David Day's Tolkien Bestiary. They don't have pointy ears (nor very long hair -- for males, it tends to be just above the shoulders). There's nothing much to distinguish them from humans, except for a slightly otherworldly quality. But Tolkien did say he saw elves as being humans who hadn't fallen.

 

[farntfar]

I don't think the elves in Smith of Wootton Major had long hair or pointed ears either.

Ah but wait. I've just looked. There's a drawing by Pauline Baynes in my book. They seem to have fairly long hair, but rather thin and straggly. But they are going to war. They look like rather hard put upon but tall vikings, and you can't see their ears, under their horned helmets.
In fact Smith and the cook and all the children have long hair as well.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Flicking through my 'The Art of The Hobbit by JRR Tolkien' , a book (along with the follow up LOTR) I urge everyone to buy. It's beautifully presented in a slip case. There are (sadly) precious few sketches of people (most are maps and places), but here are a few of Bilbo. Whilst in most his ears are hidden by his mop of curly hair, in one they are undeniably pointed.

 

[SilentRoamer]

The more I read about and see of this show the more I am convinced it is going to defecate all over Tolkiens legacy. It looks like most of the story is going to be completely made up. From my perspective none of this should be considered part of Tolkiens Legendarium. It's all so cringe.

Look at this promotional by Entertainment Weekly:

Power players: Inside 'The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power'

Sorry, rant over, just really not looking forward to seeing something I love tarnished.

 

[farntfar]

I come back to the idea that we currently have so little, either to make us pessimistic about it or overly optimistic.
It has the potential to be very good, and so far we have no real reason to think it won't be, other than our own doubts.
This video that you show, Silentroamer, certainly doesn't push me to the hopelessness towards which it seems to push you.
The actors all seem pretty positive about it, but of course they would have to say so, and they may or may not be speaking from a place of great knowledge of the books.
They say they have gained the Stephen Colbert mark of approval. He is a great fan, so that should be positive. I'm not sure I agree with everything I have heard him say on the matter, and his sometimes fanatical insistence on certain pronunciations may conflict with my own ideas, but I respect his judgement nevertheless.

So I'm still cautiously optimistic.

 

[Mon0Zer0]

From the EW preview, it looks like a 90's fantasy series like Xena: Warrior Princess, and from a gif that was going round twitter it looked like a Marvel movie.

I can't get over Lenny Henry being in it. I hope he's fantastic and proves me wrong but the minute I hear a brummy accent is the minute I'll probably switch off unless he whole thing is total schlock.

 

[SilentRoamer]

From the EW preview, it looks like a 90's fantasy series like Xena: Warrior Princess,

Yeah the action clips look really bad, lots of obvious wire work. Galadriel Warrior Princess...

Galadriel is supposed to be about grace and beauty and feminine power. For some reason modern Hollywood can only write strong women the same as their male counterparts.

I also heard one of the actresses claim she is the first female dwarf on screen as if this was some big achievement - which is false, and also from my recollection Dwarven women were almost indistinguishable from Dwarven men.... She is also the first Dwarf of color (her words).

Ive heard them talk about making Tolkiens work "accessible" and "reflective of the modern world" which fills me with dread. I do not want Tolkien adaptions to be reflective of the modern world, I want them to be reflective of Tolkiens work.

@farntfar I will go into the show and give it a chance, but honestly (the same as I was with WoT) I'm not filled with promise and excitement like I should be.

 

[thaddeus6th]

SilentRoamer, aye. Anyone who, when asked to describe Elrond or Theoden, answers "they're single fathers" or "they're white" isn't exactly painting a great portrait of their character.

And you're spot on about the irony of a fixation with female characters who are overdone and have few if any weak spots (Rey), and yet doing so by cramming them with masculine attributes. I think that's fine on occasion (tomboys do exist), but pretending women are just men who are a bit slimmer and shorter is bizarre. And it's a huge downgrade for Galadriel, from a wise and graceful sorceress to wielder of a pointy bit of metal.

 

[BAYLOR]

Yeah the action clips look really bad, lots of obvious wire work. Galadriel Warrior Princess...

Galadriel is supposed to be about grace and beauty and feminine power. For some reason modern Hollywood can only write strong women the same as their male counterparts.

I also heard one of the actresses claim she is the first female dwarf on screen as if this was some big achievement - which is false, and also from my recollection Dwarven women were almost indistinguishable from Dwarven men.... She is also the first Dwarf of color (her words).

Ive heard them talk about making Tolkiens work "accessible" and "reflective of the modern world" which fills me with dread. I do not want Tolkien adaptions to be reflective of the modern world, I want them to be reflective of Tolkiens work.

@farntfar I will go into the show and give it a chance, but honestly (the same as I was with WoT) I'm not filled with promise and excitement like I should be.

If by making it accessible they end up they throwing out what makes it LOTR LOTR then , it will fail.

 

[SilentRoamer]

If by making it accessible they end up they throwing out what makes it LOTR LOTR then , it will fail.

Honestly I don't even know what they mean by "accessible" - LOTR is one of the most widely read works of fiction, translated into dozens and dozens of copies with million and millions sold.

The point is that High Fantasy is mot supposed to look like the modern world, the language, aesthetics, cultures and norms should all be different - they shouldn't "reflect the modern world" because this isn't about modernity.

Tolkien would be horrified by this.

 

[Vladd67]

I will watch it and if I dont like it I will never think of it again. The writings of Tolkein will still exist no matter how good or bad this series turns out to be.

 

[Elckerlyc]

I will watch it even if Tolkien would be horrified by it - until the point I get horrified.

 

[ctg]

Are you guys horrified already, or are you going to be fresh and have an open mind? If you watch youtube videos and their critics, it is already doomed by them and most of them are allied on their opinion, instead of trying to watch it fresh eyes, and have an open mind. It's the same thing that happened with Kenobi and that same mindset is going to play again in the minds of the fans.

I know that I've been quiet about Kenobi and my thoughts are that it flopped, like the Book of Boba Fett. I'm not saying this is going to flop, but that thought has already been introduces by many influencers. It's just AMZ wasn't totally honest from purist perspective, on what they have done the material and claimed with total BS.

Thing is, it's still their product and most of the true fans has already made an opinion, even though none of us has the aired material. With many of threads, I try to keep my mind very open for the first three episodes. If they're 40 min ones, it's 1h 20min that you've lost. But if it catches, and you're hooked... that's the thing.

We all know that it's the number and rarely the opinion of the fans that matter. Even with our own material. AMZ has definitely rolled their dies hard and they are ready to play with the fans. It's just a lot of Tolkien has their opinion made up and at the moment It's loaded with the negative aspect instead of us getting an epic fantasy series.

Personally, not many of them has done on impact on me, and I have my scales already leaning towards GoT being the one that I'm going to watch. I also cannot believe that they went and claimed for the lead lady being "the first female dwarf..." or Sauron looking none descriptive instead of having majestic impact. Not talking about "the harfoot not being hobbits."

I also don't think that they are going to play the ages game, as the series has been renamed as LOTR: The Rings of Power. Although you cannot be certain as they might still change the name before the first one airs. Such is Bezos power. He ain't going to listen fans or purists. Only the numbers matter.

 

[ctg]

Additional info, they do not have rights to Silmarillion or any of the other Tolkien works. Only to legendarium.

 

[Dave]

that same mindset is going to play again in the minds of the fans.

I agree with you that some people have already set their minds against this series, whatever it will be like, and that they are vocal, and that they might sway other people. However, to draw a comparison with those people and the members of this forum, and to draw comparisons with Obi-Wan Kenobi - I find that quite objectionable! I'll tell you why!

Obi-Wan Kenobi was not at all faithful to the original Star Wars story. It had plenty of fan service, and many of the fans loved it for that. I did not, because it ran roughshod over the story, and because I want much more than fan service, and it had many, many faults (which I described, at length!) However, I respect that that is my own view, and is not held by everyone.

The Lord of the Rings mythological fan base is not the same as Star Wars. You have fans of the books, but you also have fans of the recent film series who might not have read any book. I'm not sure you can never please both. While I have read the books, even Silmarillion I couldn't say that I understand the all complaints made in this thread about changes or unlikely things. However, knowing members of this forum, I respect them when they say that they want to give this series a chance first. I also see very specific things pointed out as being problematic. There is no way that they are simple following the other sheep. Several people in this thread have said that they will watch and make their own minds up. Also, we have only seen Trailers so far, with soundbites and scenes that are taken out of context. So, people have been very cautious in what they have said. I'd go as far as to say that they are hoping for the best. Soon, that won't be the case because the real product will be available.

 

[thaddeus6th]

If people don't mind or like what they've seen that's fine, or if they're avoiding spoilers/trailers etc and going in blind.

But I'd slightly dispute the notion of 'going in with an open mind' either way because the whole point of teasers, trailers, written pieces and interviews is to give potential viewers an idea of how a show might go. And if they like that, or not, it's not going in with an open mind, it's going in with some knowledge of what to expect. And liking that, or not, is fair enough.

Much of the criticism is lore based, others dislike the political approach (making the world look more like the real world, which isn't exactly what Tolkien, writing a mythology for England, was after).