DISCUSSION THREAD -- October 2021 -- 300 Word Writing Challenge #43

[Provincial]

That is 11,000 words to get through.
Also human nature (and I see the irony of this). Don't underestimate how totally demotivating it is to give it your best shot and yet see you have zero votes on your story while others are romping up. ( not me btw, but I have been there ).

If everyone reads the stories as they are published (or perhaps catches up with them each weekend) 11,000 words becomes much more manageable. However if everyone waits until the end before reading the stories there is no time to discuss them properly, so instead of being an opportunity to get reactions to your work the challenge is reduced to the level of a popularity contest, which doesn’t really help anyone - other than getting writers acclimatised to rejection!

Like I said, it seems a bit sad. Early voting followed by robust discussions would be nicer…

 

[Provincial]

Come to think of it, maybe having discussions during the challenge would reduce the number of submissions made at the last moment - there were quite a few this month. Perhaps stories would appear much earlier if people knew their stories would get more attention as a result.

 

[Luiglin]

If everyone reads the stories as they are published (or perhaps catches up with them each weekend) 11,000 words becomes much more manageable. However if everyone waits until the end before reading the stories there is no time to discuss them properly, so instead of being an opportunity to get reactions to your work the challenge is reduced to the level of a popularity contest, which doesn’t really help anyone - other than getting writers acclimatised to rejection!

Like I said, it seems a bit sad. Early voting followed by robust discussions would be nicer…

I prefer to only read once the competition has been closed, same for the 75. That way all the stories are nice and fresh in my mind.

It's not very often we get discussions these days on stories in the discussion thread, which, when you think about it, is a touch daft. There is more discussion on stories in the Improving threads.

The problem I find is talking about a story and possibly influencing a vote. For instance, I often miss the mark with my tales in that they are not always obvious - October's 75 is a good example. It should be that they make sense to any reader. However, someone could post their understanding as part of a discussion which could then change someone else's own first interpretation. Thereby, possibly gaining or losing a vote/mention.

In my opinion, I think this would be unfair but happy to be shot down

 

[Ursa major]

If everyone reads the stories as they are published (or perhaps catches up with them each weekend)

I never read the stories because I don't want to be influenced by them (posting my entry, as I almost always do, with little time to spare). The danger is, of course, that I'll find myself posting something inadvertently (too) similar to an existing entry.

With a 300-worder, the chances are that, even with a very similar idea, both the treatment of the idea and the execution are going to be significantly different. With a 75-worder, there's little room to get much over other than the basic idea... so, before posting my 75-worder, I flick** through the entries to see if there's a similar one. I have, but just (I think) the one time, written a new entry because I didn't feel comfortable posting the one I'd been going to post.


** - I go through the entry thread anyway, while setting up the poll, so a glance at the contents of each 75-word entry is all I need to tell me if there may be a problem. This is not to say that I haven't written a story (sometimes from scratch) after the poll has been set up, give or take the inclusion of any last-minute entries (including, obviously, my own).

 

[Wayne Mack]

The image certainly provoked a wide range of interesting stories. My votes went to:

The Righteous Path Is a Two-Way Lane @Cat's Cradle
Human Error @paranoid marvin
The Land of Lost Content @The Judge

Others that deserve a mention for their tales:
Wanderlust @Betok_Haney
Water World @mosaix
I'll keep you alive @therapist

Note: I was wondering why so many stories referred to Boggins. I thought it was perhaps some idiom I had never heard before until I saw the mention in this discussion thread.

 

[Cat's Cradle]

Wow, thank you @Wayne Mack! I was sure my story was too freaky to get noticed amongst such fine entries. Thanks again! CC

 

[Venusian Broon]

If everyone reads the stories as they are published (or perhaps catches up with them each weekend) 11,000 words becomes much more manageable. However if everyone waits until the end before reading the stories there is no time to discuss them properly, so instead of being an opportunity to get reactions to your work the challenge is reduced to the level of a popularity contest, which doesn’t really help anyone - other than getting writers acclimatised to rejection!

Like I said, it seems a bit sad. Early voting followed by robust discussions would be nicer…

If you want reaction to your work, post a question/it in the 'improving your XXX story' thread after the competition has ended. You then get an opportunity for attention. I suppose if you are intrigued by someone elses work, you just need to call them in with a '@' and a question, after the competition ends as well, in either improving or discussion threads.

Personally I wouldn't even allow reviews when votes are still to be decided, but, hey, I'm hardline, and I don't write the rules.

I'm with @Luiglin and always leave reading any work* till after all entries are in. In fact, I probably tend to skate over the early ones and therefore probably focus more on the later ones. Hence advantage to latters in my case.


=======================

* Yes, I've just re-started entering, but I did this all the time, a few years ago, when I was regularly posting in the comps.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Hey thanks Wayne Mack, really appreciate your vote.

 

[paranoid marvin]

As for voting early/late and the pros and cons, I think that it's pretty even overall.

I wonder if it's ever been considered that as the thread is closed to entries for the first 10 days, that it would also be closed for voting for the first 7 days afterwards. This way there would be no difference between posting first or last, and the poll would only need to be left open for perhaps a week?

I think as far as discussions go, it's a tough one whilst the challenge is under way . I think the way it works now is best with the odd comment , but not delving too deeply. I don't think it's right or fair to go into much discussion about an entry before voting is finished, especially when the entrant can't really respond without breaking the rules

The reviews I do like as they are neat summaries and only ever positive, and I can't see them ever influencing what story someone will vote for. But I find them insightful in that they offer an alternative perspective; sometimes the same as I intended, sometimes not! But always useful, because if Parson and/or Victoria have that perspective, other readers will do too.

 

[M. Robert Gibson]

I'm glad I didn't enter this month, far too many good entries

Ones what I liked
Preservation - @Astro Pen
Grand Union - @BT Jones
Rosie's problem with The Postal Service - @AnRoinnUltra
What in the Boggins! - @Ashleyne
NARROW MARGIN - @Droflet
The Honourable Society of Transcendental Boatmen - @Venusian Broon
Mr Boggings - @Elckerlyc

Ones what I voted for
Wanderlust - @Betok_Haney
Human Error - @paranoid marvin
I'll keep you alive - @therapist

Special mention
Water World - @mosaix because I like the feeling of smugness when I get the reference

 

[Dan Jones]

I never read the stories because I don't want to be influenced by them (posting my entry, as I almost always do, with little time to spare). The danger is, of course, that I'll find myself posting something inadvertently (too) similar to an existing entry.

With a 300-worder, the chances are that, even with a very similar idea, both the treatment of the idea and the execution are going to be significantly different. With a 75-worder, there's little room to get much over other than the basic idea... so, before posting my 75-worder, I flick** through the entries to see if there's a similar one. I have, but just (I think) the one time, written a new entry because I didn't feel comfortable posting the one I'd been going to post.


** - I go through the entry thread anyway, while setting up the poll, so a glance at the contents of each 75-word entry is all I need to tell me if there may be a problem. This is not to say that I haven't written a story (sometimes from scratch) after the poll has been set up, give or take the inclusion of any last-minute entries (including, obviously, my own).

I've sometimes wondered if the voting in the Challenges should be altered so that everyone votes blind. That is to say, on the votes poll screen, you post your vote(s) without being able to see the running total of votes, and can't see the total number of votes until the voting is over. This way voting couldn't be influenced by the thought of "backing a winner" or, if you're in the running, denying a rival a vote, or some such thing. Of course, I wouldn't dream of doing thisyself, not least because I've never had the luxury of entertaining such Machiavellian practices as my Sir Reggie stories rarely trouble the scorers that much...

Of course I'm sure people would be able to get around this by counting the votes in the thread administered, but of course I suppose there could potentially be rules to prevent this, too. It depends how seriously the challenges are supposed to be taken, or whether it's supposed to be just for fun.

And yes, I'm aware of the irony of me talking about imposition of rules when I was chucked in the stocks for messing around with them only last month (though that does answer the question of how seriously the challenges are supposed to be taken...).

 

[Abernovo]

I never read the entries until I come to vote, as I don't want any getting extra time to worm its way in. I take my time reading, and I read slowly, anyway. Due to this, I tend to vote towards the end of the period.

I have 'backed the winner' a good few times, but I always go with the one which works best for me as a story, etc. So, any correlation is accidental.

I've also been mostly absent the last few months. I'm in the process of moving. My job is highly pressured, which I tend to like for the most part, except for when ships and cargoes are still half an ocean away, and I need them in port yesterday. I've had to become involved in caring for family members, including one who dislikes me and always has. And I've had flare-ups of depressive episodes, although they're mostly under control. All of which means that I no longer comment in the threads as I used to do, because I just don't have time or energy to do so. We all interact differently, and we all go through different phases in our lives which can affect how involved we are, so I'd say vote whenever you wish - just please vote, and within the permitted timeframe, whether or not you entered the challenge. But don't judge too harshly.
(/Sorry for the word dump.)

Finally, a huge thank you to @Parson for the vote!

 

[Provincial]

If you want reaction to your work, post a question/it in the 'improving your XXX story' thread after the competition has ended. You then get an opportunity for attention. I suppose if you are intrigued by someone elses work, you just need to call them in with a '@' and a question, after the competition ends as well, in either improving or discussion threads.

Personally I wouldn't even allow reviews when votes are still to be decided, but, hey, I'm hardline, and I don't write the rules.

I'm with @Luiglin and always leave reading any work* till after all entries are in. In fact, I probably tend to skate over the early ones and therefore probably focus more on the later ones. Hence advantage to latters in my case.


=======================

* Yes, I've just re-started entering, but I did this all the time, a few years ago, when I was regularly posting in the comps.

Hi @Venusian Broon! When I do want a detailed analysis of my stories I post them on the ‘improving your stories’ thread, as suggested. If I am just looking for an audience however, a general thumbs up or thumbs down, the only place I can go to (so far as I am aware) is the relevant challenge discussion thread, and at the moment - despite the name - there is no discussion on them. The most recent 75er did have a couple of nice chats evolving on it, the first I can recall, so it can happen, but generally speaking it doesn’t.

I thought that part of the reason for these challenges was to help people develop their writing skills. I appreciate that it must feel wonderful to win a challenge because I am always thrilled when I get a vote (or even just a mention) and it is certainly great to have an external encouragement to write, with a source of inspiration thrown in for good measure. Nevertheless it is still just a popularity contest, not a genuine evaluation of a story’s qualities. The winner never finds out what they did ‘right’, and since the number of people who voted for the winner is always dwarfed by the number of people who didn’t, the winner also misses out on a great chance to find out what they did ‘wrong’, as do the rest of us. In the long run that might be more useful, don’t you think? Or would that make the atmosphere unhelpfully negative, as opposed to ’friendly but frank’?

I am not campaigning to change anything on Chronicles, which I love. I am merely interested in seeing if there is any scope or appetite for more open discussion of the stories on the discussion threads, bearing in mind the restrictions that everyday life places on us all.

 

[Elckerlyc]

I totally second @Provincial's post

 

[Ursa major]

I totally second @Provincial's post

You do know that we frown upon plagiarism in the Challenges, don't you...?

 

[Elckerlyc]

You do know that we frown upon plagiarism in the Challenges, don't you...?

I am merely building upon his (referenced) foundation.

 

[Abernovo]

I am not campaigning to change anything on Chronicles, which I love. I am merely interested in seeing if there is any scope or appetite for more open discussion of the stories on the discussion threads, bearing in mind the restrictions that everyday life places on us all.

There is a rule that we don't comment negatively on entries. And, of course, there are the twin issues of not wanting only some entries receiving comments, leaving some left out, and having some entries gain more prominence in voters' minds due to commentary. Plus the very strict rule that entrants are not allowed to explain their entries.

All that said, I would welcome more discussion. The discussion threads used to be more active, even if a lot of it was just jokey camaraderie, although that in itself was a good way to find people you might like to talk to about writing outwith the threads.

I think one thing is that many of us have become busy with other projects/work/life. Whilst we still pop our heads in, we're not able to contribute as much. Perhaps you could lead the charge, Provincial? Even if it was just with engaging, convivial discourse. Dare I say, and I'll be the first to admit my own guilt in this, but the challenge discussion threads seem more perfunctory these days, and less engaged as a community, less of the entrants' characters showing through in general discussion. I'd love to see it livened up again.

Just my two penn'orth of an opinion.

 

[Provincial]

I think one thing is that many of us have become busy with other projects/work/life. Whilst we still pop our heads in, we're not able to contribute as much. Perhaps you could lead the charge, Provincial? Even if it was just with engaging, convivial discourse. Dare I say, and I'll be the first to admit my own guilt in this, but the challenge discussion threads seem more perfunctory these days, and less engaged as a community, less of the entrants' characters showing through in general discussion. I'd love to see it livened up again.

Just my two penn'orth of an opinion.

I have given it a go, @Abernovo, but no luck. Not only are people not reading the stories before the end of the competition, it appears they are also not reading the discussion thread very much - although the lack of responses could just mean I was being fantastically boring, or perhaps embarrassingly needy. Even authors have failed to respond to questions (which were tagged with their usernames) about their stories, and you’d think they would be interested.

 

[Mon0Zer0]

There is a rule that we don't comment negatively on entries.

Does it have to be negative? Couldn't it be constructive as well as encouraging.

If the purpose of the challenges is to improve our craft, then it doesn't really help if people are voting based on who your friends are, rather than the content and craft of their stories. I have been surprised on the winners a few times when I've seen other stories which are imho stronger and better written but, having said that, I don't think the objective of the exercise should be to win, but to participate and to help each other out.

Maybe some general discussion on story mechanics would help. If we were to keep it positive, rather than having a list of winners and runners up, maybe it would be good to highlight elements from certain stories you think worked well, or to have a little more detail on why you voted for a winner, rather than just liking it or agreeing with the sentiment of a story. Maybe, justifying why you think a story should win would encourage chronners to focus on craft, itself, rather than the writer's identity?

For example, I voted for @The Judge 's story because it felt well rounded with a clear beginning middle and end; it was literate, with references to Proust and Housman; the central conflict of the story was set up and resolved and, finally, it had great atmosphere.

I liked the economy in this group of sentences that conveyed so much with So little:

"Whistling breaks the grey silence. A tune. Memory."

There doesn't seem to be any move within comments to work on general tendencies other than in the "improve your story... " thread. General tendencies, rather than uninvited critiques, might keep some relevant discussion alive?

If I were to make a general criticism of many of the stories submitted it's that they're not so much stories as musings or fragments. I level that at some of my own past entries, too.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Hey thanks for the vote M. Robert Gibson.