DISCUSSION THREAD -- October 2021 -- 300 Word Writing Challenge #43

[paranoid marvin]

I think we all have different criteria when it comes to voting , and even that can change from month to month. Sometimes an entry just blows you out of the water, and there isn't always a specific reason for it. But other times it could be an interesting spin on the theme, a cleverly constructed entry or an entertaining story. Sometimes we need a feel-good entry, or at this time of the year perhaps a chilling tale or at other times a good laugh to cheer us up. It can even be down to being on the same wave length as the author, 'getting' their entry just as they intended; the same way we choose to buy books by certain authors over others.

There are times when I am surprised that some entries haven't gained more votes than they have, but I can't remember any entry winning that I thought didn't merit it.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure that discussion of individual entries before voting is finished (other than to say positive things) is the best way forward when the author themselves is unable to properly respond. I also think that it would more likely reduce the number of entrants if they felt their story may be discussed. I also think that it may also reduce the number of voters if some form of explanation for their choices was felt to be expected.

In all honesty I do think that the best place for anything more than a few positive comments about an entry is in the 'improving our entries' threads. That way those who want help or advice can seek it, and those giving it won't ever feel that their comments were unwelcome.

 

[Phyrebrat]

All this fretting over votes and sophistry over when’s the best time to post. A question: does anyone in this thread enter with hopes of winning? Or do you do it to hone your craft and participate?

It seems like there’s the slightest whiff of Machiavellian intrigue

I’m with @Venusian Broon re the application of rules. I do still wish reviews were held till after voting as I know two people who use, or have used them, to help them choose (don’t worry, your secret is safe with me).

I think it’s also patently clear when a story has been misunderstood or disliked. Parson particularly uses an orange font within his reviews to make ‘special mentions’ of ones that chimed with him. Is that fair? Probably not. Should we care? Well, not really, unless the challenges then become about winning instead of participating.

Before, VS and P, Perp used to do the reviews. And in those days the discussion thread was (from memory) far more popular. Nowadays it’s simply review or people thanking for their reviews. Thus, I don’t think the reviews are to blame. I do feel tho that the disc thread is now about waiting for your review and thanking.

We’re all creative types and most of us somewhat unproven. I can see how the dopamine hit of a review can be positive but …

Those are my thoughts on it. I can’t underline how nonsensical it is that people worry about when they post their story. Ideally you’d use the entire month to hone (a lot of us do this) as distance gives you perspective. I think the knee-jerk reaction of insta-posting is the issue here, not voting predilection.

 

[Mon0Zer0]

Before, VS and P, Perp used to do the reviews. And in those days the discussion thread was (from memory) far more popular. Nowadays it’s simply review or people thanking for their reviews. Thus, I don’t think the reviews are to blame. I do feel tho that the disc thread is now about waiting for your review and thanking.

What did people discuss at the time?

 

[Phyrebrat]

What did people discuss at the time?

Well, in those days it was mostly about who was courting whom, how many eels make a shoelace and what my next season wardrobe would be.


Wait…. Maybe that’s why it’s slacked off?

 

[Elckerlyc]

I could (try to) write an extensive discourse about how I see and experience the challenges, but (to cut it short and simple*) I would appreciate a general discussion of the entries, without having to resort to the Improve Thread. Of course I want to improve and hone my skills, but just getting an idea where I stand with my writing quality-wise, what people think of my story would often enough suffice.
Not all participants are at the same level of skills or accomplishment. Not all participants have the same experience or confidence. If we are to hone our skills, how is that to be achieved without discussion?
The biggest problem might be to get people discussing the entries. After the voting, that is, to not to influence that process.
Perhaps the Improve Thread need to have a lower threshold to promote general discussions or maybe that is just how I perceive its purpose.

*[sigh] I tried and failed.

 

[nixie]

It takes a lot of courage to enter the challenges. Not everyone who enters is an aspiring writer. We can discuss the stories but we don't want to put people off, that's why we don't criticise, nor do we allow people to explain their entry, could give them an unfair advantage.

I do read entries after I post and again before I vote, well in 75 I'm not really good enough for 300 so rarely enter. Normally I read them as they come in.

 

[AnRoinnUltra]

The biggest problem might be to get people discussing the entries. After the voting, that is, to not to influence that process.
Perhaps the Improve Thread need to have a lower threshold to promote general discussions or maybe that is just how I perceive its purpose.

I dunno about lowering the threshold. I've to Google the terms and words used from time to time, and it's a great way of learning (reading considered advice, not the search engine thing). From what I've seen the discussions are all very civil and thought out -whatever plan ends up as, please keep doing what you are doing.

A question: does anyone in this thread enter with hopes of winning? Or do you do it to hone your craft and participate?

Seems to me like any competition or sport, the aim is to win but the fun is in participating.

 

[Droflet]

Thanks for the mention, M Robert.

 

[Parson]

Two thoughts:
1. In the early days there was more discussion about the stories on the discussion thread. As I remember it, the discussion was often things like "Wow! Phyrebrat that was a sinister story. I really liked it." And then others would chime in if they too really liked the story. As far as I remember there was no discussion of style or such.

2. I agree with what was said above about encouraging people to at least say why they voted or shortlisted a story. That would help with understanding about what worked. But I think it would have to stay in the realm of suggestion. As our world is teaching us: "Mandates don't work well."

 

[Abernovo]

how many eels make a shoelace and what my next season wardrobe would be.

Maybe this is the answer. I've never met Phyrebrat, but have been told he's impeccably stylish. I have seen videos of his dancing, though, and am thoroughly disgusted by the fact that he's only about a year or two younger than me, but has that much flexibility!

As for eels, they're too big for shoelaces, unless they're at the glass eel or elver stage. You're probably better off cording tapeworms; when preserved, and then dried, they're remarkably tough. You just have to be careful how you cultivate them! I was in an agricultural department at uni, better not to ask past that.

As to the winning/taking part debate, I've accepted I will never win, but I write for myself. If other people enjoy what I write (and I've had good feedback from people not on this site), then all the better. So, I write for them, too, in a way.

 

[therapist]

I would love to see more discussion on stories. This is, after-all, the discussion thread. The stories submitted probably represent hundreds of hours of our collective work, that will all eventually fade into obscurity. Seems a shame not to discuss them more.

I'm usually attracted to simpler stories. Ones with a clearly defined plot and satisfying resolution. I think Wanderlust by @Betok_Haney is a great example of this. I sympathized with the main character, she clearly didn't fit in with her society, and the way she broke free was very satisyfing to me because she used the very thing that she was scorned for, in a surprising and clever way. That made the story feel whole and complete.

It's much harder for me to express why I voted for 'The Travels of Sir Reginald Rigmarole, Part 94!' by @Dan Jones . It goes against what I usually look for in stories.
I didn't really know what I was reading, yet I loved it. The intention of this story was to be funny, and it succeeded in making me laugh. It's hard for a 300 story to elicit such a response.
Every sentence brimmed with the enjoyable and absurd comical voice. It was persistent, well executed, the author committed to it 100%, and it landed perfectly with me.

Re 'The Land of Lost Content' by @thejudge I could tell it was well written but I wonder if not being familiar with Proust or Housman hampered me from fully connecting with the story. Were there references inbedded in the story? Also was there a significance to this line?
'She turns back to the boat; sees its name, backwards' NORAH C --> C HARON?

(not sure if this type of discussion is wanted or not, let me know)

 

[Elckerlyc]

I dunno about lowering the threshold. I've to Google the terms and words used from time to time, and it's a great way of learning (reading considered advice, not the search engine thing). From what I've seen the discussions are all very civil and thought out -whatever plan ends up as, please keep doing what you are doing.

Just to clarify, by 'lowering the threshold' I did not mean to lower the quality of the reviews, advice and/or criticisms, but the accessibility of this particular thread. The way I see it you only enter your story in this thread when you want to know how to improve that one story you wrote for the challenge. I have entered a few times, but don want to overdo it.
For me it is not always about the need to know how to improve a story, but more about how I am doing as an amateur writer.

 

[Elckerlyc]

Also was there a significance to this line?
'She turns back to the boat; sees its name, backwards' NORAH C --> C HARON?

*cough* Charon *cough*

 

[Ian Fortytwo]

The idea for my story came from watching Blue Peter many years ago.

 

[Provincial]

As to the winning/taking part debate, I've accepted I will never win, but I write for myself. If other people enjoy what I write (and I've had good feedback from people not on this site), then all the better. So, I write for them, too, in a way.

Me too. I am perfectly fine with people preferring a different story to mine, in fact I expect it. However I would like to know (a) if they understood my story, and (b) what, if anything, they enjoyed about it. I am sure those two reactions can be conveyed without getting nasty, and it would be really nice to know.

 

[Provincial]

The idea for my story came from watching Blue Peter many years ago.

I remember that episode! I think the section has been repeated a few times over the years, too.

I liked your story, because I enjoyed your focus on the realities of canal boats. I love to learn new stuff. It also reminded me of a walk I took along a disused railway track a few decades ago. When I came to a long tunnel, with only a small glimpse of light at the end of it, I began walking into it quite happily. But further in, when I was completely surrounded by the darkness, I began to feel anxious, and then afraid. In the end I had to go back the way I came, couldn’t bear to walk any further forward for fear of the unknown. After all, when you enter a long and unfamiliar tunnel, who knows what is in the darkness, or what will be waiting for you at the other end? Yet when I took a friend with me the next weekend, it wasn’t scary at all.

I didn’t vote for it because it was the start of a longer story, not a complete story in and of itself, so it didn’t feel as if it had a proper ending.

 

[mosaix]

I rarely post in the comments thread. Commenting on one's own story is, quite rightly, not permitted. When it comes to commenting on other stories I feel that constitutes a 'review' and I would have to do the same for all of them. That, in itself, is a problem when it comes to stories I just don't understand - what on Earth am I meant to say that isn't negative? I don't know how @Victoria Silverwolf and @Parson manage it. For me, @Perpetual Man was the master - something positive and encouraging every single time.

For what it's worth I think things are fine as they stand although I do think @Phyrebrat has a point with the timing of reviews.

 

[Mon0Zer0]

I just don't understand - what on Earth am I meant to say that isn't negative?

I do think @Phyrebrat has a point with the timing of reviews.

Keep it to what you liked about some stories. You don't need to review every single one, just something like "great use of imagery in @scoobly boobop's story" or "@random set up the twist subtly and that paid off at the end." I think encouraging people to read critically will help their own work more than anything, if that's what they want.

If people are participating to just have fun and not to improve their craft then that's cool. For me, I very very muchly wanna rite good.

Other than discussing the theme, I don't understand the point in having a thread called "challenge discussion" if you're not allowed to discuss the entries, even in a gentle, positive way.

Totally agree on the timing.

Are there any examples of perp's reviews?

 

[mosaix]

@Mon0Zer0 I understood the rule was that if we reviewed any stories at all then we had to review them all.

Regarding Perp's reviews, go back to the early days of the challenges and read the comments threads. I'm not surprised he stopped doing them, it must have been exhausting.

 

[Mon0Zer0]

@Mon0Zer0 I understood that the rule was that if we reviewed any stories at all then we had to review them all.

Ah, ok - didn't know that. Maybe it puts people off contributing? It's a big ask for so many stories.