Annoying spelling, galling grammar, irksome words, frustrating phrases

[JunkMonkey]

Also reprehensible is another usage originating, I believe, on these shores, the use of the noun reference as a verb, as in "The group leader referenced [better: referred to] the document printed on blue paper." Nothing is gained by the perversion of the noun; it does nothing not already done very well by the verb form. We might try to remember "She referred to the library's reference books section."

I would argue with that one. To reference something means to refer to something yes and shouldn't be used as a direct replacement when someone is merely looking at something for information or inspiration. (As in your blue paper example.) But when the source material referred to is quoted or cited in a new work, then 'referenced' would seem to me to be exactly the right word to use.

 

[Oligonicella]

"Irregardless". No such word.

"Enormity". The word you probably want is "enormous".

"9 items or less".

Webster's Unabridged - pg 1009, col 3
irregardless adv nonstandard
regardless
[1910-15: ir- (probably after irrespective) + regardless]

You can only confuse enormity and enormous if you confuse noun/adjective.
"The enormity of war" doesn't mean the same thing as "the enormous war".

 

[Oligonicella]

Also reprehensible is another usage originating, I believe, on these shores, the use of the noun reference as a verb, as in "The group leader referenced [better: referred to] the document printed on blue paper." Nothing is gained by the perversion of the noun; it does nothing not already done very well by the verb form. We might try to remember "She referred to the library's reference books section."

It's both a noun and a verb.

Web Un - pg 1620, col 1
reference
14. to refer to: to reference a file.
[1580-1590: refer + ence.]

While low on the usage counts, it's not a new perversion.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Why do people say "I'm not being funny, but..." when they are?

 

[Oligonicella]

I can see how that can work with "don't care to" (though it would confuse me too), as "care" has a meaning relating to concern, so "I don't care to" could mean "I do it without concern". But I don't see how that translates to "could care less" which surely can only mean "it's possible to have less concern about it", therefore "I care about it"?

It's sarcasm. Irony to convey contempt.

"Rats are dying by the thousands."
"I don't care." (Flat statement of fact.)
........
"I could care less." (I hate rats. Why are you bothering me with this?)

The difference between dismissive and sarcastic.

 

[Matteo]

And, with all due respect...

 

[HareBrain]

It's sarcasm. Irony to convey contempt.

"Rats are dying by the thousands."
"I could care less." (I hate rats. Why are you bothering me with this?)

I'm pretty sure none of the times I've heard it spoken have been in a sarcastic tone of voice.

 

[farntfar]

Frankly, my dear, I could give a damn.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Well I’m surprised I haven’t already posted this. Clear evidence of North American wrongness.

 

[Extollager]

I would argue with that one. To reference something means to refer to something yes and shouldn't be used as a direct replacement when someone is merely looking at something for information or inspiration. (As in your blue paper example.) But when the source material referred to is quoted or cited in a new work, then 'referenced' would seem to me to be exactly the right word to use.

Why not use "quoted" or "cited," then?

 

[paranoid marvin]

Well I’m surprised I haven’t already posted this. Clear evidence of North American wrongness.

Although I - I mean the King - really, really doesn't want you to pronounce aluminium as aloominum. The right to prounce words any way you feel like, wasn't the kind of freedom that Mel Gibson was fighting for in The Patriot.

 

[Ursa major]

"I could care less."

Even if this was originally sarcastic, it likely isn't being used that way now (i.e. people now use the phrase as something they've heard others say, not because they are being sarcastic).

 

[JunkMonkey]

Why not use "quoted" or "cited," then?

You could but they have different uses too. Both those words are more precise than 'referenced'. A quote is a direct use of a passage of an older work - usually text. A citation is a more like an appeal to authority "Don't just take my word for it here's someone else who says the same, or whose conclusions I am using as evidence or the basis for my assertions". A reference is more ephemeral. In painting it would be the use of a pose say, one of the most famous (and most often cited) is that of Manet’s Olympia which clearly references Titian’s Venus of Urbino.

Manet’s painting is not a direct quote, or a citation, a copy, or a pastiche of the older work but it references it. Manet used and changed elements of a very familiar image to say something confrontational and shocking. This was a very controversial painting in its day. Back then people did not explicitly paint prostitutes (there are lots of visual clues in the work which would have been blindingly obvious to the contemporary audience) and then pose them in direct reference to a famous painting of a goddess. Shocking stuff.

 

[Oligonicella]

Even if this was originally sarcastic, it likely isn't being used that way now (i.e. people now use the phrase as something they've heard others say, not because they are being sarcastic).

We live on different continents. That's most definitely how it's used around here.

Or, to address the video:
Your Queen doesn't like it?
I could care less. (dismissive sarcasm)

 

[paranoid marvin]

Yes it's become an idiom, in the same that hardly anyone uses 'literally' to mean exactly that. It isn't sacrcasm, it's an expression that many use and understand the meaning of.

 

[Ursa major]

That's most definitely how it's used around here.

How do you know this for sure (and in a country whose population is a third of a billion)? Is it taught in schools? Are people originally from other countries taught it as part of the process of becoming a US citizen? (Note: No one mentioned it to me on any of the occasions when I set foot on US soil.)

Or do most people just say what they've heard other people say -- the way most idioms become part of someone's vocabulary (unless there really are idiom classes in the US) -- not knowing, or generally caring, why that form or words became an idiom?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

We live on different continents. That's most definitely how it's used around here.

If by "around here", you mean the Midwest, I am in no position to disagree. (I have relatives from that region, but I don't believe I have ever heard any of them use that phrase. I know my father never did, and he was originally from a little town in southern Missouri—though that was long ago, and perhaps things have changed.) But if you are speaking for the entire continent . . . well, I live on the same continent as you do, and I have never heard it used sarcastically. Or if they did, I didn't detect the sarcasm (which is always possible). I'm with those who find the phrase annoying.

So it might be a regional thing, or a generational thing, but I don't believe it is a UK vs US thing.

 

[Oligonicella]

"around here" -> So Mo, Ozarks -> settled (early 1800s) from those that settled Appalachia (1500s) -> still retains vernacular from the influx

I said that upthread and presumed people would relate what I post to that. That phrase is usually understood to mean a locale so I didn't think anyone would assume I was talking about the entire US. Mea culpa. As the topic (annoying, galling, irksome, frustrating) is non-specific I assumed that either side could be expressed. Again, mea culpa.

English is one of, if not the, most fluid languages on earth. It steals, creates and modifies words like no other. Is it a surprise that British and American meanings differ, often to the point of contradicting?

There are over 200K words so no one learns the meanings of all of them and the vast bulk of them are of low enough usage that they are not taught in schools and many people think they're not really words. That's why I have a fifteen pound dictionary on my desk (as the online ones truly suck).

I write novels not grammar texts, so I tend to write as people speak not as a grammarian would phrase things and I obviously don't hold rigid rules dear, quite the opposite. I speak and write like the people I live with in the Ozarks, with idioms and colloquialisms. Those are part and parcel to the English language. That's why we have compendiums of them.

Bless all your hearts.

 

[dask]

“I couldn’t care less” is what I grew up with. “Could care less” never sounded right.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I said that upthread and presumed people would relate what I post to that

Not when you had just referenced the continent on which you live, I am afraid.

Where in the Ozarks, by the way? My father was born and raised in Puxico. It's rare when I meet someone from that neck of the woods who wasn't a relative (and they are all gone now) so if you are from anywhere close to Puxico, that will be exciting for me.