The Dragon Has Three Heads

[Tysha]

Tysha, is this Alleras=Aegon theory yours? Has it gone around on the asoiaf.westros.org boards? It's certainly new to me.

It's mine MINE! MY precioussss...
I've finished the last book only a few weeks ago (and that's why I'm still so excited about theories and stuff..) And asoiaf.westros.org is looks like a bit dead... I wrote to them about an Aegon=Alleras theory but no one seems to be interested in that one...
Ah, the sweetness of realization...After I've realized that R+L=J (I was thinking crazy thoughts about Jon and Arya as a couple lol(in the future of course) and thought how to make it possible, then I thought - maybe Jon is not Arya's brother and then.. wait a minute.. Eureka! R+L=J! Jon is a Targaryen blood, one of the dragons heads! My hasband thought about the Aegon prophecy at the House of Undying - so I started to look after Aegon, thinking of all 15-17 years old boys that were mentioned.. it came to me the night I went to sleep after finished AFFC,I thought about mysterious Alleras who is HALF DORNISH.. hmm... half dornish.. like Aegon?! Then I've started to search for the details, there is a lot of little ditails that supported Alleras=Aegon theory. End of story. Sorry for spilling it out, I have no one else to boast it in front of

If Tyrion is a *******... Okay, yes, Tyrion is a ******* and a jerk and a %$@*#!, but I mean a Targaryen *******. If Tyrion is a *******, then even as a ******* he's Dany's older brother... and if he was somehow mi-frickin'-raculously legitimized, then Tysha's child (if Tyrion is the father) is the heir to the Iron Throne. Just like Barra or Gendry, there could be some urchin heir out there. Suddenly, the Hot Pie as King joke takes on a whole new light.

Oh my, Tyrion's ******* would be so great, a little Tyrion, how sweet (oh wait, Tyrion IS little..), About the Hot Pie, that could be "the dragon has three heads" thingy (that this thread is suppose to be about): Hot pie, Hodor and Tyrion's batsard!!! (Dany is actually some Dayne's *******, her mother throwed herself from a tower...)
And how is that for a theory? (dedicated to Aegon the unworthy to proove that I'm not an ELEPHANT!)
Any suggestions for Tyrion's *******'s name?

 

[Young stormlord]

I will try not to do that, but it's hard


Or.. when Martin is trying to draw you a more colourful picture or even to confuse you with a lot of little details.


Oh, thank you for pointing this out! Because he is so NOT surprised! look at this (the summary of the first part of the prologue)":
Alleras's fiends:"DRAGONS!"
Alleras: "Throw the apple."
Alleras's friends: "Oh my god! There are dragons!"
Alleras: "Throw the apple."
Alleras's friends: Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god!! DRAGONS! And a Dragon-glass candle is BURNING! (Did I say oh my god?)
Alleras: "Are you going to eat that apple?"
He sounds like he knows MUCH more of this than his friends... very mysterious.. don't you think?
Moreover, he is giving them (unexcited and unsurprised ) short Targaryen hystory lesson! (He tells them about - the dragon has three heads, who is who's son and daughter and etc" It's not a solid proof but it's certainly supports my theory

Jaqen is a Faceless Man! Looks like you and your friend Aegon the Unworthy seem to forget that part in his biography. He is very costly assassin, he's job must be VERY important! Who is going to pay a huge amount of money for information about dragons and others from the Citadel? And why to sent a Facelsess man to do such a simple job as gathering information? He is an ASASSIN - his job is KILLING or maybe protecting someone important=KILLING his enemies.

I will ignore that one 'cos it's really funny... Goerge Martin writing a whole prologue about a ******* girl who went for shopping in a lovely Oldtown... hmm..
Alleras came to the Citadel ONE year before the "prologue time", AFTER the war has already began.
Well, about "reports to Martell" and "learning secrets" - that makes SOME sense (for a change ) But it's so unimportant and boring...why would George Martin highlight Alleras, his looks, and all the important people around him (Marwyn, Jaqen,Sam) if it's just Sarella that came to learn, make reports for Martels or just shopping...

Well, she doesn't have to look like Oberyn, BUT she is a SALTY DORNISH girl! Take an avarage arab family (that resemble an avarage dornish family) - mother, father, children, grandchildren.. what the change for one of them to be pale? well.. there is some, like 0.0000001%. Of course, they are not twins, but features like skin colour, eyes, hair are racial traits!


Thank you, I've really enjoyed to disprove it

You just did what I told we all do. I was trying to explain that is posible that Oberyn met Sarella's mother in Oldtown, her being trader and all and him being Citadell acolyte. What do you think he lost interest in becoming maester anyway? That had nothing with Sarella shopping in Oldtown.

About history lesson: I still don't see any point in there. If you are Viper's daughter and he tell's you some of his plans that include Dany Stormborn of course you will know about who and where she is.That could explain his coolness.

There is also a thing about war there. Dorn wasn't interfering with war of 5 kings for a long time. It is possible that it wasn't hers (Sarella's) war 1 year before.

What we learn from Arya's and Tyrion's chapters (Varys telling Tyrion that sometimes information is more valuable than gold) is that Faceless man also gather information before they act, so my theory still stands. It is also posible that maesters hired assasin to kill Aemon, him being the Targaryen and all. It is also noticed somewhere that Hightowers were hardcore targ loyalists so killing Targaryen in Oldtown is not going to be easy task.
Just my two cents

And just to make you happy Tysha: Haven't you thought how Aegon got out from KL? Well I thought.
Jorren pulled him out . Remember him telling Arya that he lost only 3 men during his trip to wall. One was little boy who was bitten by viper while he was shiting. Perhaps it was figurative speech?

 

[Tysha]

And just to make you happy Tysha: Haven't you thought how Aegon got out from KL? Well I thought.
Jorren pulled him out . Remember him telling Arya that he lost only 3 men during his trip to wall. One was little boy who was bitten by viper while he was shiting. Perhaps it was figurative speech?

Oh! Good one! To suppot this theory - Oberyn had a weird hobbie (well he was weird) - biting people's asses while they are $hiting: 1. Little boy at his way to the wall. 2. Tywin Lannister - well figuratively speaking - he died of a crossbow bolt while $hiting, now look at this, Tyrion was there with a crossbow in his hands only because of Oberyn's failure at a "trial by battle"!

 

[Young stormlord]

Oh! Good one! To suppot this theory - Oberyn had a weird hobbie (well he was weird) - biting people's asses while they are $hiting: 1. Little boy at his way to the wall. 2. Tywin Lannister - well figuratively speaking - he died of a crossbow bolt while $hiting, now look at this, Tyrion was there with a crossbow in his hands only because of Oberyn's failure at a "trial by battle"!

What was that?You have obviously missed the point. You could used this to support your little theory Sarella=Aegon but because you missed it ,I will use it. Story goes like this : Aegon's poor mother seeks way to send him from KL. Varys tells her that he just might have a way. For in the city is a man from Nightwatch, going to the wall. They give him a baby and he starts moving. But before he could get to wall war ends. And while he was changing baby's silk dypers at Prancyng Ponny Inn,Oberyn gets there and takes baby. You know rest of the story

 

[Tysha]

What was that?You have obviously missed the point. You could used this to support your little theory Sarella=Aegon but because you missed it ,I will use it. Story goes like this : Aegon's poor mother seeks way to send him from KL. Varys tells her that he just might have a way. For in the city is a man from Nightwatch, going to the wall. They give him a baby and he starts moving. But before he could get to wall war ends. And while he was changing baby's silk dypers at Prancyng Ponny Inn,Oberyn gets there and takes baby. You know rest of the story

First, my theory is about Alleras is Aegon and NOT Sarella is Aegon!
Second, if you are serious about this one, Aegon was "a babe at breast", he can't be $hiting at the woods at that age Princess Elia gave her son to YOREN?! To take a Targaryen heir to the Wall?! She would never do that voluntarily!
Third I was only joking with you

 

[Young stormlord]

First, my theory is about Alleras is Aegon and NOT Sarella is Aegon!
Second, if you are serious about this one, Aegon was "a babe at breast", he can't be $hiting at the woods at that age Princess Elia gave her son to YOREN?! To take a Targaryen heir to the Wall?! She would never do that voluntarily!
Third I was only joking with you

So was I . Let's get back to the subject shall we. You still haven't beaten my last theory and/or evidences that Alleras is Sarella by the way.
One more thing: Why can't we just believe Martin that Aegon is dead and get on with it. If any1 had Aegon with him he would use it 15 years ago, not now.

 

[Tysha]

So was I . Let's get back to the subject shall we. You still haven't beaten my last theory and/or evidences that Alleras is Sarella by the way. .

Well, could you make a list like 1,2,3.. why Sarella=Alleras..? That will help me to put in order the beating

One more thing: Why can't we just believe Martin that Aegon is dead and get on with it. If any1 had Aegon with him he would use it 15 years ago, not now.

Because of THE PROPHECY that Dany saw at the house of undying!!! Rhaegar have said: "dragon has three heads, you should find one more" - that means there are two already (Dany and Aegon) and those two should find ONE MORE (Jon).

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Actually (and this is one of those things) Martin categorically did not say Aegon was dead. When asked about whether the children of Rhaegar and Elia were killed at KL(and this is in another thread somewhere--still lacking in google-fu) he responded with an enigmatic "Well, Rhaenys is dead"

Once again Boaz will now post a link that will refer you to a thread that looks right but contains nothing more than a slavering diatribe about his love for James Clavell.

 

[Young stormlord]

You just did what I told we all do. I was trying to explain that is posible that Oberyn met Sarella's mother in Oldtown, her being trader and all and him being Citadell acolyte. What do you think he lost interest in becoming maester anyway? That had nothing with Sarella shopping in Oldtown.

About history lesson: I still don't see any point in there. If you are Viper's daughter and he tell's you some of his plans that include Dany Stormborn of course you will know about who and where she is.That could explain his coolness.

There is also a thing about war there. Dorn wasn't interfering with war of 5 kings for a long time. It is possible that it wasn't hers (Sarella's) war 1 year before.

What we learn from Arya's and Tyrion's chapters (Varys telling Tyrion that sometimes information is more valuable than gold) is that Faceless man also gather information before they act, so my theory still stands. It is also posible that maesters hired assasin to kill Aemon, him being the Targaryen and all. It is also noticed somewhere that Hightowers were hardcore targ loyalists so killing Targaryen in Oldtown is not going to be easy task.
Just my two cents

I read this in Sam last chapter in AFFC. And that proves only that Alleras is Sarella (not that Sarella is Aegon!).

Sphinx are also mentioned in ACOK when Tyrion first times go to small council (delivers Tiwins message). This would S=A supporters take as proof but that doesn't mean anything. That could mean only that Cersei is trying to act like a man.

I

It is funny how people take only parts that support their theory while ignoring everything else. But I am doing the same so what about that?

Almost everything that Martin wrote has some usage especially when he describes something big such as huge green sphinxes on Citadell entrance.


Acolytes have only one chance to lit that candle, and that is when they have finished their chain and already become maesters (right before they get lord to serve). Reason why "Jaquen" is there could be this : Arya have heard blinky(spelling?) and fat man arguing about something in Braavos. Perhaps fat man is "Jaquen". "Jaquen" took key that opens all Citadell doors from Pate?It is posible they were talking about taking some rare books from Citadell. Books about others and dragons.

Now for second acussation
Sarellas reasons for being in Oldtown:
1. She loves that town(AFFC "Captain of guards", Tienna)Perhaps Oberyn meet her mother there (Oldtowh is great merchant town, house Hightower is rich house,protectors of Citadell, that got their money trading)
2. She was forging her's chain when war started (little game of hers. Martell same chapter).
3. Hightowers are rich as Lannisters (Sam's last chapter, AFFC). And guess who's sending reports about them to Martell's.
4. She is at Marwin's room for a reason. Marwin is teaching "higher secrets", magic in looking for a better word. (his staff and mask are valyrian steel! apendix, AFFC) Who knows better about dragon's then man who teaches magic at Citadell? And when you are Oberyn's daughter who is schemming to get back Targaryens on throne you need to know all that is to know about dragons, right? And I guess that Marwin doesn't have much students.

About Elya: she is one year younger than Oberyn. (Martell to Obarra AFFC) Even if they were twins it doesn't prove that they look alike.

Who could say I would quote myself just to prove my theory? And to add some more evidences: In Pate's chapter Pate himself thinks about Alleras and Citadell sphinxes. And also says : "he has strength in that thin arms"

BTW I posted Aegon is dead just to make all of you angry.

 

[Young stormlord]

1. Alleras=Sarella

Mirrored name. The strongest reason.

2. Description of Alleras and Oberyn. It is also said that Alleras has thin hands.

3. Every sand snake uses different weapon to kill.

Obara-spear
Nym-knives
Tyenna-poison
Obella- mace
Sarella-might be using arrows

I forgot to quote myself from another thread. Sorry for double post.

 

[Tysha]

OK YS! You have the hints that can support both theories (yours and mine) but you reasons are not satisfying - what is behind Sarella=Alleras? And don't say to me "she just want to be a maester" or "she just loves Oldown".
I understand why you think Alleras=Sarella but I find the reasons behind my theory more satisfying, I guess we have to wait for ADWD and then there will be one big "I told you so" (from one of us ) Or as we know Martin - non of us.

 

[Young stormlord]

Your reasons for Aegon being in Citadell are not much either. I guess we need to wait ADWD and see.. While we waiting I have new theory : Tyrek Lannister= Aegon. His age is fine and has blond hair

 

[Tysha]

Well I want to share with you my grief (Dedicated to Aegon The Unworthy and Yound stormlord).
"Rhaenys looked more like a Martell, Aegon more a Targaryen" - part of interview with GRRM at 2000.
Well that was very surprising... there is non of it in the books though.. so: there are some possibilities:
1. My theory IS dead. (wich would cause a suicidal action and we don't want that..right?)
2. That interview was made at 2000 - 7 years ago, a very long time ago (That one is really weak, cos I think GRRM would know such an important thing as Aegons looks)
3. He lied, yep, that simple. It's not so hard to imagine scenario like this one:
-year 2122 - ADWD is finally published-
The fans: "But you've said in your interview that Aegon has Targaryen features!!!"
GRRM: "Well, I lied. You should read more books and less interviews"

In conclusion, my theory is probably dead and that's a second biggest disappointment in my life (the first was AFFC Audio book WITHOUT the amazing Roy Dotrice).
So I guess it IS Alleras=Sarella? Well, I must hurry, before the "The rope and soap" store is closed...

 

[TK-421]

Well, I must hurry, before the "The rope and soap" store is closed...

I'm sorry, rope and soap? Are you going to prison or something?

 

[Boaz]

Why am I always designated to be the research monkey? Sheesh!

Okay, here it is on the Aegon. Just a lame thought... thread. Read Werthead's post on the first page.

And if you want another opinion for Aegon, read my first post... Aegon is a captive under Casterly Rock! People should never post after drinking...

I'm not ready to give up on the Alleras=Aegon theory yet. Not that I'm sold on it... it's just so darn interesting. Oberyn held Aegon for nigh on twenty years.

So what was the Viper's purpose in going to KL? He wanted the truth of Elia's and Rhaenys' murders. He wanted someone to confess in order to start stirring up Targaryen sympathy again. What if he wanted specific confessions for the killings of Elia and Rhaenys, but not for Aegon? His plan might have been to torture Gregor or someone into admitting guilt for Elia but denying guilt for Aegon. I dunno if Gregor knew the child was Aegon or not. But perhaps he did know and thats' why he left the child unrecognizable. After all those years, if suddenly no one knew what happened to Aegon, then the door is open for Oberyn to reintroduce him.

Perhaps Tywin's men lied to him.

Then again, maybe Oberyn was not the plotter that he's recently been accused of... maybe he was that hot headed.

 

[AandKsavetheDAY]

I'm sorry. I just read about 12 of these pages in a row and was shaking my head so hard at the end that it almost came off. IMO, Alleras=Aegon is a huge stretch, and so unlikely it's odd that it has been discussed for so long. (please don't take offense, I'm just not convinced)
Alleras has to be Sarella. I'm very sorry that I don't have direct quotes to back myself up on this, but Young stormlord has done a good enough job defending my position that I don't really need to.
My thinking, however unimportant, is this:
The mirrored name? It cannot be dismissed as too easy- I didn't see it until it was pointed out here, and it seems a bit too much of a coincidence to mean nothing.
A girl can disguise herself as a guy. It has happened before (there was a few in the civil war, i know that) and described as he was, Alleras is a fine candidate for such a secret. Plus, come on, people- hasn't anyone here watched profound classics like She's the Man or Mulan???
Another thing- we still have no substantial proof that Aegon is alive. If Aegon=Sarella, Arienne wouldn't have thought of him? as her sister- and I would think it would be much harder for a guy to be disguised as a girl than the other way around
IMO, there would be more clues to all of this at this point in the story. The sphinx things are clues to Alleras=Sarella, I didn't get any Aegon vibes from any of that.
So thats my two cents, or possibly five dollars worth. Take it or ignore it.

 

[Tysha]

I'm sorry. I just read about 12 of these pages in a row and was shaking my head so hard at the end that it almost came off. IMO, Alleras=Aegon is a huge stretch, and so unlikely it's odd that it has been discussed for so long. (please don't take offense, I'm just not convinced)
Alleras has to be Sarella. I'm very sorry that I don't have direct quotes to back myself up on this, but Young stormlord has done a good enough job defending my position that I don't really need to.
My thinking, however unimportant, is this:
The mirrored name? It cannot be dismissed as too easy- I didn't see it until it was pointed out here, and it seems a bit too much of a coincidence to mean nothing.
A girl can disguise herself as a guy. It has happened before (there was a few in the civil war, i know that) and described as he was, Alleras is a fine candidate for such a secret. Plus, come on, people- hasn't anyone here watched profound classics like She's the Man or Mulan???
Another thing- we still have no substantial proof that Aegon is alive. If Aegon=Sarella, Arienne wouldn't have thought of him? as her sister- and I would think it would be much harder for a guy to be disguised as a girl than the other way around
IMO, there would be more clues to all of this at this point in the story. The sphinx things are clues to Alleras=Sarella, I didn't get any Aegon vibes from any of that.
So thats my two cents, or possibly five dollars worth. Take it or ignore it.

Oh how could I ignore that?! I know my theory IS probably dead now BUT, "and so unlikely it's odd that it has been discussed for so long."?! Obviously you haven't read the 11-15 pages carefully enough (And gosh I don't balme you) On page 12 there is a short summary of the theory - with logic explananions of all the things you have questioned here - mirrored name (he was Sarellas friend), Arianne didn't knew (it was a SECRET), and he was NOT disguised as a girl, he grew up as a boy, someone's son (just like Sylva and Drey with Arianne.)
I guess Alleras=Sarella theory is the true one, but MY theory IS logical and the only argument (an important one) against it, is the GRRM interview where he says that Aegon has a Targaryen features.
Neither Aegon The Unworthy nor Young storm lord has given any reasonable arguments to contradict my theory, only 'lotsa arguments why is Allers=Sarella.
Take it or ignore it

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Absence of proof to the contrary does not make something true by default....

Im going to argue with you one more time Tysha on one point you've now blown off 14 times....

There is only one reason that Aegon does not equal Sarella...only one. Everything else in your line of argument fits.

Why o why if you are the quite-common combination of an olive skinned Dornishmen and someone with fair skin would you use a cover story of being a less common product of a dark skinned Islander and an olive skinned dornishmen. Yes it is possible to have those two combinations result in fairly close skin colors but it is not likely. Your cover story would only invite questions, and questions are something you want to avoid. You answer me that with something logical and not just a wave of your hand like the previous 14 times (I didnt count) and Ill concede the issue. Seriously...I will.

Im only rehashing this because you called me out in your previous post...

PS I just read this whole page instead of the parts I thought were new, and it turns out George did my work for me....thanks George, and thanks for owning up Tysha

 

[Tysha]

Absence of proof to the contrary does not make something true by default....

That's true, but it's doesn't contradict it either.

Why o why if you are the quite-common combination of an olive skinned Dornishmen and someone with fair skin would you use a cover story of being a less common product of a dark skinned Islander and an olive skinned dornishmen. Yes it is possible to have those two combinations result in fairly close skin colors but it is not likely. Your cover story would only invite questions, and questions are something you want to avoid. You answer me that with something logical and not just a wave of your hand like the previous 14 times (I didnt count) and Ill concede the issue. Seriously...I will.

Im only rehashing this because you called me out in your previous post...

PS I just read this whole page instead of the parts I thought were new, and it turns out George did my work for me....thanks George, and thanks for owning up Tysha

1. It is a good point, and I didn't really gave it much thought, and it's definitely supports the Alleras=Sarella theory. (that I know is probably true, ok?)
2. Yet, it does not totally contradict the Aegon/Alleras theory. (That I know is probably untrue, ok?) If Aegon had a Dornish looks (absolute dornish, like Jon who has an absolute Stark looks) - it could fit to Alleras description. (I know, the black CURLS is a bit odd, but still) So, why to tell his mother is a Summer Islander? Why not? He took his friend's name so why not her history? Or maybe because Summer Islander is quite the opposite of the Targaryen (the looks).
3. I know that if Aegon had a pure Dornish looks, it would be simpler for him to say he is just Dornish, from both sides. I know my explanation quite unsatisfying, BUT, I still think it was a good theory (R.I.P.), logic and interesting, and if I'm the only one to think so, so be it.

 

[AandKsavetheDAY]

I have to apologize for my last post. It seems, after re-readin it, I was quite... grumpy. It was a good theory, and at least something to talk about. That scene with Rhaegar seemed to really point to Aegon as one of the three heads, which, if that's the case, I would've thought that he'd introduce Aegon a little sooner. Because the thing is, we know that if he IS alive (which I think would be very interesting), he is not going to have a POV, because Quentyn nabbed the last one. Who could be the POV that would inform us on Aegon? Maybe Dany? Maybe... Tyrion? I'm totally off on a tangent, but I do like that last one.