The Valonqar

What if his hand isn't meant to be reanimated but he simply just uses it to bash in her skull? Killed by the golden touch ;)
By what their Family is renouned for, gold and riches. I'm sure it was forged by Lannister gold, why not right? The family pride is high enough i could see them doing that rather then just using what ever is in KL (even though im sure most of what is there is Lannister gold) A Lannister paying his debt with a smack of his Golden touch lol
 
Oh Jaime has plenty of reasons to kill Cersei, I think.

There were many mentions of the golden hand in AFFC and how useless it is. Cersei complained many times about his stump in ASOS. The whole golden hand idea seems kind of stupid and useless to Jaime unless GRRM intends to use it. If corpses can be reanimated by The Others, and if the red priests can glamour people to look like someone else and resurrect someone who'd been dead for days with her head nearly cut off.....seems more than reasonable they can turn a golden hand into a working hand. If that isn't the intention I don't know why GRRM even bothered with this distraction. Seems if Jaime was meant to be a one-handed knight then GRRM would've left him with that stump that Cersei hates so much.

Jule, I agree with you that Jaime is the Valonqar, I also think you may have a hit with the reanimated golden hand! I just don't think Jaime will kill Cersei on anyone else's behalf. I think it will be in his own time for his own reasons. Just can't see him doing it for anyone else or to save his own life in any way. Not quite the redemption scenario he really needs.
 
Stupid question: wouldn't a gold, life-sized hand of a man like Jaime be monstrously heavy? Assuming that Jaime has a relatively large hand (wielding a broadsword, better nutrition that his peasants, and being one of the best knights in the realm, etc.) the thing would weigh at least a stone if not more.

Why make a hand of gold? Or is it a wooden hand that is painted gold, or covered in gold leaf?

Solid gold would cause him no end of trouble with swinging his arm.
 
Stupid question: wouldn't a gold, life-sized hand of a man like Jaime be monstrously heavy? Assuming that Jaime has a relatively large hand (wielding a broadsword, better nutrition that his peasants, and being one of the best knights in the realm, etc.) the thing would weigh at least a stone if not more.

Why make a hand of gold? Or is it a wooden hand that is painted gold, or covered in gold leaf?

Solid gold would cause him no end of trouble with swinging his arm.
Yeah I thought about that, too. But I suppose GRRM figured that if we're willing to suspend our disbelief for dragons, people seeing the past through trees, reanimated corpses, etc, we could handle an overweight solid gold hand, as well.
 
Stupid question: wouldn't a gold, life-sized hand of a man like Jaime be monstrously heavy? Assuming that Jaime has a relatively large hand (wielding a broadsword, better nutrition that his peasants, and being one of the best knights in the realm, etc.) the thing would weigh at least a stone if not more.

Why make a hand of gold? Or is it a wooden hand that is painted gold, or covered in gold leaf?

Solid gold would cause him no end of trouble with swinging his arm.

Jaime's right arm would be pretty strong since he's used to swinging around a big heavy sword with it all the damn time. it would be ridiculously heavy, but nothing he couldn't handle.

Also, What Jules said.

Just putting this out there, but it has been mentioned that there is a possibility that Cersei is the product of rape by Aegon. And that Jon Snow is a product of rape by Aegon as well. It might be possible that Jon is the Valonqar
 
I really like this idea of Jaime's golden hand around Cersei throat :) That fits so perfectly with Tyrion and Shae last moments....
 
I'd like to think that Jaime is the valonqar and will ultimately be Cersei's undoing. Cersei has spent so much time and effort hating on Tyrion and judging him inaccurately time and again with only bias to back her judgment up, she's blind to any other possibilities. While she and Jaime are twins, she was technically born first, which technically makes Jaime the younger brother, even if only by minutes/seconds.

Jaime's been manipulated, used and abused by his sister/lover for most of his life, and he's only just (in SoS) started to realize to what extent. He has a thought, I forget where exactly, that's "She never comes to me, she waits for me to go to her," and I feel that's significant because he's becoming aware of the dynamics of their relationship. When Cersei doesn't get what she wants from Jaime, she puts him down, tries to emasculate him, which is a really crap thing to do, especially to the "love of your life."

Likewise, we learn through Cersei's POV in AFFC that while Jaime has only ever wanted Cersei, Cersei was all about Rhaegar, and it was a devastating blow how that all fell out. Jaime was her twin, was always there, her second choice, and infinitely better than anyone else, seeing as Rhaegar was now unattainable and soon-to-be dead. Furthermore, she makes it clear that her "love" for Jaime is 100% conditional. If he does what she wants, she loves him and "rewards" him. If he does not do what she wants, she viciously attacks him, mostly verbally, but occasionally physically.

Does Jaime have reason to want her dead? That depends on Jaime's character. Has he realized what Cersei is? Yes. He knows she's screwing/screwed the Kettleblacks and Lancel, and when she sends her "I need you now as I have never needed you before. Come at once. I love you I love you I love you" letter, he reads it over and chucks it into the fire. He's no longer going to "hop-to" just because she tells him so.

But does Jaime have it in him to kill her? It's hard to say. Jaime loves his sister, and he has been in love with Cersei for all of his adult life. Despite "breaking up with his girlfriend" (for lack of a better term), he still loves his sister, and I certainly don't think that he's at a point that he would just kill her. Does it mean she wouldn't find a way to escalate it to that? No. But Cersei seems extremely cowed after getting sheered and made to walk naked through KL. Does she have it in her to rev Jaime into murderous rage again?

I think that Jaime killing Cersei would be poetic, both because he is also, technically, a younger brother, and because he's been really burned by her, but Tyrion has far greater reason to want to kill Cersei. She's done every single thing she possibly could to ruin/end his life. She's blamed him for murdering her son because she's so biased against him she was unwilling to examine any other possibility. She tried to have Mandon Moore kill him because he was undermining her. She has wronged him more grievously than she's wronged any other person, bar none, and that is saying something.

What we do know of Tyrion is that he's on his way to joining forces with "another queen, younger and more beautiful, that will take all that you hold dear." He's flat out stated that what he has to offer Queen Daenerys is all the information that he possesses, which is pretty much everything. He intends to give Dany the rub on all the Lannisters, the wars, the ins and outs of KL and the current "ruling" system in Westeros. The thing fueling Tyrion is vengeance. He wants his brother, and especially his sister, to pay, and pay dearly. Like Arya's prayers, Tyrion wraps himself in the warmth of his hatred and determination to destroy them.

I don't believe that Jaime (at this point) has it in him to kill his sister, the woman he once loved, not without something huge to incite that kind of rage, and Cersei (at present) doesn't seem to have it in her to induce much of anything in anyone.

I wholeheartedly believe that Tyrion is the valonqar to bring down Cersei, in one manner or another.
 
While reading on another forum that I don't post on (way too much drama to get involved with) I came across a discussion on the valonquar. One poster theorizes that the valonquar is in fact Tommen and that the text, if read correctly, pretty much says outright that it's him. At first, I was quite skeptical but after reading the theory and the source material ... well, I'm not so sure anymore. The theory is this: Cersei asks Maggy three distinct questions and Maggy answers those three questions. Since Cersei's third question deals with her children, it follows that the statement about "the valonquar" must be in the context of her children. After reading and re-reading that prophecy it actually fits because Maggy doesn't say "your valonquar" she explicitly says "THE valonquar". If we substitute the translation into the original prophecy it reads as follows "Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the little brother shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." It can be read in the context that the final statement is still an answer about Cersei's children. And if so, is it saying the "little brother" from amongst her her children? Could Tommen be the valonquar?

I've always been convinced this prophecy referred to Jaime -- she hated Tyrion and loved Jaime, so it was nice irony that Jaime would in fact be the one to kill her instead of the brother she expected and prepared against. But after exploring this theory, like I said, I'm not so sure anymore. The only part I have trouble with is the golden shrouds -- if they all die how could Tommen kill her?

All-in-all, TWoW just needs to come out so we can get some different source material for new crackpot theories :D
 
That seems reasonable, except that Tommen is eleven years old... although it's hard to tell time in the series... he might still only be ten. When he's fourteen, maybe. Sixteen, yes, but he's only eleven with two books to go.

I still think it's Jaime, but I'll hold on to my wild theory of Dany as long as I can.
 
That is an interesting theory. I always took the prophecy to mean that she would outlive her children, but it doesn't actually say that. The prophecy just says that her children will die, eventually. Although the Golden Shroud would lead me to believe that they die while still considered royalty. The only thing that suggests that her children die before her is the line "...and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you..." But that could just be the tears she weeps for Joffrey and maybe Myrcella, or it could be unrelated.

Either way, I agree, we need to get some new source material for new Crackpot Theories.
 
It could be Tommen AND Tommen could be dead. What if the white walkers make it to King's Landing - Tommen gets killed, he's shrouded, Cercei is looking over him in gloom and he reaches up and chokes her?
Not saying that's it but...classic GrrM twist. ;-)
 
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