Destiny of the Stark kids! (spoilers imminent)

[Timba]

It actually makes more sense that someone who has to take the identity of someone else in doing their job be able to retain their true one. kind of like an undercover cop.

Exactly! A FM who has no sense of self would be nearly useless.

 

[NenadBulaja]

The HUGE difference between Arya and Theon is that Arya is not undergoing systematic torture and being forced to bury her true identity. SHe is always given a choice, which is that she has the freedom to leave whenever she likes. SHe is told by The Kindly Man that she can have her eyesight back and SHE chooses to remain blind. It actually just hit me that Arya has been forced by circumstances to adopt almost a myriad of identities, yet she never loses herself in any of those persona. I'll ammend what i said in the beginning and say that I think that Arya would find a way to kill Ramsay if she underwent what Theon did. She's incredibly strong willed, and I think that's one of the reasons that she is such a good candidate for the FM. She WON'T lose herself.

She is never given the true choice. If she chooses not to drink the potion, she fails. If she fails she must leave,if she leaves she dies.

And she IS tortured, not by skinning of fingers, but by constant pressure to renounce of herself. Newer did I say that it will be successful,only that she will have to fight to regain it. And with all due respect for her strong will, FM seem to been doing that successfully for almost thousand of years. I will allow that there is possibility she remains Arya, but only if she is already learned everything she can from FM, else I would be disappointed for her not taking everything she can from FM, only because she is too prideful to let go of her Stark heritage (didn't see that bring much good to Ned's father, brother, Ned and Robb).

But I agree that there is great difference between Theon and Arya, I used only as proof that loosing of identity is possible with GRRM.

It actually makes more sense that someone who has to take the identity of someone else in doing their job be able to retain their true one. kind of like an undercover cop.

Yes, you are talking about undercover cops. I am talking about sleeper agents. People that are unaware that they are not who they seem to be, blending in their surrounding perfectly, while undercover cops rarely live to see their pension.

Everyone has been saying the test is to give up Arya and become No One. Maybe she fails if she does
Absolutely agree. There is no practical use for an assassin to 'be' no one, however given the FM's modus operandi being able to 'seem' to be no one is essential.

FM are aware who they are, but they do not consider themselves hired killers, but more like priests doing God's work. Again my reasoning is that true assassins must not have personal opinion or morals, they only have the target, be it five years old child or 80-year old Lady. And many organisations that employ this kind of people, have programs that completely erase their previous identity, replacing it with ever changing masks, with only one constant thing - commitment to their goal. And since GRRM draws his inspiration from many "real" organisations and events, I believe that he created FM with this in mind. Again I'm not saying FM will be completely successful with Arya, just that she will have to fight for herself much harder than just "Sorry, I'm still Arya, guess you failed , bye!"

 

[NenadBulaja]

This discussion made me think this way: What would Stark kids occupations counterparts be in the real world?

1. Arya - Ninja/Secret agent
2. Sansa - Politician/Diplomat
3. Jon - Military career
4. Bran - Scientist/Free climber
5. Rickon - ???

And also being fan of old school RPG, made adventuring company of them:

1. Jon - Ranger
2. Rickon - Fighter/Barbarian
3. Arya - Mage/Thef
4. Bran - Druid

5. Sansa - NPC, since couldn't fit her in any category - she still has not any fighting ability.

 

[Tywin]

And also being fan of old school RPG, made adventuring company of them:

1. Jon - Ranger
2. Rickon - Fighter/Barbarian
3. Arya - Mage/Thef
4. Bran - Druid

5. Sansa - NPC, since couldn't fit her in any category - she still has not any fighting ability.

This is a fun turn of the thread. Here's my two cents on the D&D categories:
1. Jon - Not a Ranger. He was not chosen as one for the NW, and his duties/actions have been in leadership of others - not in forestry/hunting/ranging. I'd peg him for a Fighter class, or actually possibly a Paladin. If he becomes AA, then he definitely fits as a Paladin.

2. Rickon - Agree with the Fighter/Barbarian tag.

3. Arya - Thief. Assassin maybe if you played a version of D&D with Assassin class in it.

4. Bran - Druid most def.

5. Sansa - The hardest one to peg in this system. Making her an NPC would fit Needle's description of her as 'The Potted Plant', but she's going to have to do something before the series ends. Maybe have her as a bard or something... not singing and dancing kind of bard, but a bard that influences and charms people to do her will?

 

[NenadBulaja]

Jon could be Paladin if turns out to be AA, had Ghost in mind for making him Ranger, but all kids (except Sansa) have direwolves of their own so it's not crucial difference.

Arya actually Thief/Illusionist, but I believe that old AD&D rules forbid anything other than generalist mage for multiclassing.

Great idea for Sansa, Bard is definitively closest to her role, considering her future skills in diplomacy and her love for stories.

 

[Tywin]

Let's expand this thread hijack a little. How about classes for the following:
1. Tyrion
2. Cersei
3. Daenerys
4. Ramsai
5. Melisandre
6. Davos

 

[NenadBulaja]

Tough call, but ill do my best:

1. Tyrion - must be unorthodox, but Dwarf fighter with high INT is only thing that comes to mind.
2. Cersei - Which, but since there is no such class, I would say Thief/Bard (Evil aligned though)
3. Daenerys - Mage, and a Fire one at that.
4. Ramsey - Psychopath, again non existent in AD&D, so I guess Barbarian (another Evil aligned).
5. Melisandre - Cleric of R'hllor, this is only easy one.
6. Davos - Swashbuckler, I call upon BG2 for this one, since it is the only popular game that introduced this class.

 

[Tywin]

Sorry for the slow reply on this...

I think I'm with you on all of them except for Cersei... not sure where to put her, but I think she'd probably choose warrior (or even Paladin) in her own mind.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Warrior no doubt (well at least after ADwD and her penance, as I can't see her as holy warrior after she has been humiliated by the church).

 

[Tywin]

Warrior no doubt (well at least after ADwD and her penance, as I can't see her as holy warrior after she has been humiliated by the church).

Not a holy warrior as in connected to the church. What I meant is that in her own head she is convinced that she is absolutely doing the right thing in a world where she is surrounded by evil people. "A Paladin in her own head"

"A warrior in her own head." Might be an appropriate comment about her as well. Perhaps a thief character that thinks she's a warrior?

This would be so much easier if "Whore" were a character class.

 

[NenadBulaja]

You're right there, doing the right thing, and wondering why doesn't anybody understand that.

 

[Koopa]

Within the gloom, i suddenly saw a ray hope:
Ghost still lives !

Now why is this significant?
Cause all the Starks who's direwolf died ended up 'dead' as well.

Ned Stark got killed --> the mother wolf died with a stag piece in it's throat.
Lady was killed --> Sansa stopped being a Stark, she married and become a Lannister, and is clearly shown becoming a southern player.
Grey Wind dead --> Robb is dead.

Meanwhile Summer and Shaggydog where still alive when GRRM made it look like Theon skinned them. We found out that they are bot still alive.
And thus my beautiful probably flawed and entirely hopeful reasoning that Jon is still alive.

 

[Timba]

Within the gloom, i suddenly saw a ray hope:
Ghost still lives !

Now why is this significant?
Cause all the Starks who's direwolf died ended up 'dead' as well.

Ned Stark got killed --> the mother wolf died with a stag piece in it's throat.
Lady was killed --> Sansa stopped being a Stark, she married and become a Lannister, and is clearly shown becoming a southern player.
Grey Wind dead --> Robb is dead.

Meanwhile Summer and Shaggydog where still alive when GRRM made it look like Theon skinned them. We found out that they are bot still alive.
And thus my beautiful probably flawed and entirely hopeful reasoning that Jon is still alive.

Flawed or not I endorse your conclusion.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Well, actually, I have no doubt Jon survived. Question is just in which way.

And yes, agree that Ghost surviving is one of main pointers toward Jon's destiny.

 

[Tywin]

Grey Wind survived after Robb. For at least as long as we know that Ghost is alive after Jon is stabbed.

Your welcome.

Respectfully,
The Lannisters.

 

[Timba]

Grey Wind survived after Robb. For at least as long as we know that Ghost is alive after Jon is stabbed.

Your welcome.

Respectfully,
The Lannisters.

Ve haf ways of dealing with people like you!

Colonel Klink

 

[The Imp]

Ve haf ways of dealing with people like you!

Colonel Klink

CLassic reference. You show your tree rings though

 

[Timba]

CLassic reference. You show your tree rings though

Yep and proud of every ring

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

Arya - Her first victim in Winds of Winter will most likely be Harys Swift as he arrives in Braavos to negotiate with the Iron Bank. Most of her list is dead, but I can see her assassinating Robert Strong of the Kingsguard, who is clearly a twisted version of the Mountain. There is a chance she will clash with the Kindly man, who is probably Jaqen H'ghar & Syrio Forel, when she goes on a rampage to avenge her family's house.

Sansa - Will outmanouvre Little Finger, marry a Vale knight/lord with lots of soldiers and head for Winterfell to claim her birthright. I think she will be her mother's daughter but with a sprinkle of Cersei's political ambition thrown in. The latter did afterall leave her with alot of interesting points during the Battle of Blackwater.

Bran - Will be an uber-powerful character that defends the Old and the Seven from both the Other and Rhllor, in-fact Bran will slip into one of Dany's dragons, most likely Viserion and burn the hell of the wights and the White-walkers.

Rickkon - Will establish an ofshoot branch of House Stark called Skagostarks, in the same tradition as the Karstarks and Greystarks, only a wilder and less chivalrous offshoot, probably autonomous from Winterfell though still loyal.

Jon - What? I read him being stabbed several times, how do you guys know he is still alive? He probably is, and will dislodge the Boltons and the others from Winterfell and Riverrun. He might finally even be acknowledge as a son of Winterfell by dead Catelyn.

 

[Needle]

Jon - What? I read him being stabbed several times, how do you guys know he is still alive? He probably is, and will dislodge the Boltons and the others from Winterfell and Riverrun. He might finally even be acknowledge as a son of Winterfell by dead Catelyn.

Good to see you again Yog-Sothoth!

Mine own theory on Jon is here- http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/1528838-post223.html

I also like the thought that the kindly man is Jaqen, don't know if we have discussed that one!