The Dragon Has Three Heads

[Ursa major]

Just a quick pointer - is it my imagination or did I read something suggesting that Tyrion could be a Targ?

Wasn't it mentioned that one of the Targ kings had spent time in Casterly Rock less than a year before Tyrion was born?

I seem to recall the implication was that Tyrion was a Targ, but I really can't remember if it was something I noted reading, or a discussion on this forum.

If he were, though, the three heads of the dragon would be the three last remaining Targs:

Dany
Jon (assuming R+L)
Tyrion

Aegon as a red herring.

Just thinking out loud here.

There are those who support the idea that Tyrion is a Targ; but there are also those who believe Aerys fathered Jaime and Cersei, which would mean that a Targ is already on the throne (Tommen) and he succeeded another Targ (Joffrey).

Perhaps all three are Targs, allowing Jaime, Cersie and Tyrion to be the three heads of the dragon.

 

[Tywin]

D+J+T for the three heads is a well established theory. I hadn't heard the J+C+T as the three heads one before

"Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all." Moqorro to Tyrion

Dragons... and you. Seems to separate Tyrion from the dragons.

Then here:
That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realise that his second head was weeping.

If Tyrion's dream here is indeed prophecy, then he would be on the ground fighting while dragons wheeled overhead... but then again the "he had two heads, both noseless" might mean that he was warging one of those dragons (if one of the dragons loses a nose... or perhaps its sense of smell we'll know what's coming).

Also, with the above dream, does "With Bittersteel" mean with that silly skull dipped in gold... or does it perhaps mean a descendant of Bittersteel?

 

[Tywin]

By the way, here's a good quick reference on dreams and prophecies:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dreams_and_prophecies

 

[Needle]

D+J+T for the three heads is a well established theory. I hadn't heard the J+C+T as the three heads one before

"Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all." Moqorro to Tyrion

Dragons... and you. Seems to separate Tyrion from the dragons.

Then here:
That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realise that his second head was weeping.

If Tyrion's dream here is indeed prophecy, then he would be on the ground fighting while dragons wheeled overhead... but then again the "he had two heads, both noseless" might mean that he was warging one of those dragons (if one of the dragons loses a nose... or perhaps its sense of smell we'll know what's coming).

Also, with the above dream, does "With Bittersteel" mean with that silly skull dipped in gold... or does it perhaps mean a descendant of Bittersteel?

All our prophecy talk! How did we miss this one! Gotta think on it.

 

[Boaz]

Making a list of all characters named in this thread as likely candidates for the heads...

Dany
Jon
Tyrion
Bran
Gendry Waters
Margaery
Edric Storm
Aurane Waters
Mya Stone
Brown Ben Plumm
Aegon VI Targaryen
Stannis Baratheon
Missandei
Arya
Alleras the Sphinx
Sarella = Alleras = Aegon
Quentyn
Samwell
Arianne
Victarion
Euron

Edit: Tywin, didn't Bittersteel found the Golden Company? I know Tyrion is currently with the Second Sons and Aegon is with the Golden Company... so does that mean Tyrion and Aegon join forces?

 

[Tywin]

Edit: Tywin, didn't Bittersteel found the Golden Company? I know Tyrion is currently with the Second Sons and Aegon is with the Golden Company... so does that mean Tyrion and Aegon join forces?

Yes, that is very likely.

I think I covered that in the Crackpot theory on Aegon. The question for me is does "Bittersteel" that Tyrion is fighting beside represent the Golden Company itself, Aegon as a possible descendant of Bittersteel,... or just that gold-dipped skull.

 

[Rufio]

The two heads are more likely a reference to Maelys the Monstrous than any skinchanging antics on Tyrion's part... so another Blackfyre reference. But having parted ways with Aegon it seems unlikely that Tyrion is going to be fighting alongside the Golden Company and any Blackfyres there may be. More likely against them.

I think this dream is more about introspection than prophecy. He kills his father again, he commits a sadistic and cruel act against his brother again. He dreams himself a famous 'monster' (and kinslayer), having been treated like a monster all his life and probably even moreso than usual in recent times by Cersei and the inhabitants of King's Landing. The two heads clearly represent the emotional turmoil he is in after the events of a Storm of Swords. He dreams of history and dragons, two of his favourite subjects. From a metatextual point of view GRRM played up the Blackfyre stuff in ADWD and this was another place that was worked into the story.

I suppose it foreshadows his meeting of Aegon and his probable meeting with Barristan, I don't know how much more there is to it than that. Tyrion will probably be involved in battle again, with dragons involved, and quite possibly on the same side as Barristan. Maybe he will be on the opposite side to Jaime?

 

[Boaz]

Rufio, I like the Maelys the Monstrous connection. What if it is not just the inner turmoil of Tyrion's mind? What if it is not guilt?

What if it is a premonition or a green dream? If Tyrion dreams he is a Blackfyre (Targaryen bastards) fighting alongside other Blackfyres, does that lend credendence to the theory that Tyrion is Aerys' *******?

I'll do anything to make Tyraen Targaryen come true!

 

[Tywin]

Throughout the series it seems like if there is a dream portrayed, then it is a prophecy of some type. I don't recall any examples of dreams in ISOIAF that were not prophetic, but my memory might not be correct.

 

[juleska]

Throughout the series it seems like if there is a dream portrayed, then it is a prophecy of some type. I don't recall any examples of dreams in ISOIAF that were not prophetic, but my memory might not be correct.

I paid close attention to dreams on my re-read and discovered prophesies, or at least revelations of the past, I'd overlooked the first time. There were, however, a couple of cases that seemed to be just your typical nonsense drunken stupor dreams. In these cases there may or may not have been pieces of something revealed that turned out to be a true revelation of the past or premonition for the future, but the dream as a whole did not come off that way. Interestingly, each case I can recall were dreams that Lannisters had: One such dream of Cersei's if memory serves, one of Tyrion's, and one of Jaime's.

 

[Tywin]

I think I remember the Jaime one. It had to do with his hand I believe.

The Tyrion one certainly seemed to me to have the drama and feel of a prophetic dream, like others in the series.

 

[Sana]

Eventhough I have a few pages left on the book. I would like to get some thoughts on this. Who are the heads of the threes dragons?
1) Dany
2) Jon Snow....
3) ?...One of Robert's *******? Ameon did tell Sam that Stannis, Renly, and Robert had some of the dragon blood. I am not leaning too much on that one. I just remember Ameon said that they had a drop of the dragon blood.

my guess is that the young Aegon must be the second head, as for the third head... too many possibilities, so far I am lost.

 

[Boaz]

Sana, Welcome to the Chrons! Welcome in particular to the GRRM forum. Don't worry about feeling lost. I am pretty sure I understand everything happening in the story, but that does not mean I know what will happen. It is just as you said, "too many possibilities." Welcome to being lost.

 

[The Imp]

I think that the way the story is unfolding, it's going to be Dany, Tyrion (assuming Aerys was his real father) and Jon, assuming he's around after the assasination attempt.

 

[TK-421]

Hello all,

I go away and come back for a peek to see the same names being tossed about. Oh well, at least the good discussion has continued. Cheers.

 

[clownphoenix]

The only heads the currently make sense to me are 1) Dany 2) Victorian (he has the horn) 3) Either Aegon or Jon, with me leaning towards Jon as he seems to be the "Ice" point of view and has the warg ability (able to control the dragons that way) besides possibly being a targ, whereas Aegon 'might' be a targ, but so far has no evidence of being able to warg or resist fire, nor did he birth the dragons. And as previously shown, having targ blood is not enough, as with Quentyn Martell.

 

[Error404]

Ok, I think to figure out heads, we must first identify the protagonist. I think as of right now the only one we can say for sure is Tyrion, even though he may not be a king he still portrays a protagonist. He seems to do good in the end even though he does use underhanded tactics. Seems less like a puppeteer and more like the second in command trying to keep everything right no matter where he goes. A bit of a foil. But now we must look for two more protagonist. My first would look at is Deanerys, she seems like she could grow into a true protagonist but flaws seem to hold her back in my eyes. She seems to lack the bravery, courage and the initiative to do whats right. She knows what is right and good but she's to timid to do anything relying others to convince her to do it or having them do it for her. My second choice would be Aegon, because he's raising would make him a great king. He's intelligent, a great tactician, and is very capable at combat. And him being brought up to know the poor man struggles, and not to see the king a right but a duty. But his blood line is in question. Personally I would love to see the true protagonist come out during the middle of the story then in the beginning, something different. Now my third choice is Jon, but he seems more like he doesn't want to rule, that's my biggest concern. Could be wrong on some of these facts. But then again these are just opinions.

 

[Tywin]

Welcome... Error...

I think you're probably on the right path with heads of the dragon, but let me caution you on an analysis based on the elements of plot and story. GRRM is a mean man who understands those elements all too well and uses them against his readers.

Specifically in regards to having a 'protagonist', the only true protagonist that I ever identified in the story was Eddard Stark...

 

[Handsome John]

Jon and Tyrion to join Dany.

My question is, though, who ends up ruling at the end? Dany can't have babies now so surely she can't end up being Queen?

 

[The Imp]

Jon and Tyrion to join Dany.

My question is, though, who ends up ruling at the end? Dany can't have babies now so surely she can't end up being Queen?

It's not 100% clear to me that Mirri Maz Duur's "prophecy" says that she can't have babies. I think we all assumed that, and maybe rightfully so, but I'm not even sure that it's a real prophecy, and if it is, then as far as i can tell, it MIGHT even mean that Drogo could return.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."