5.10: 2001

[Jaxie]

hey check it out, i was right.

oh bythe way

skydiver - I LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!

thank you soooo much for all that.

now i just can't wait until nect week.

ciao
jaxie

 

[nic]

Yup, thanks Sky for the episode summary.
You're a :star:!

Nic x x

 

[jsc]

Hope coffeecup caught the T-Man in this one! He is now paired with Daniel, not a bad choice!

I don't think Joe was killled by the Achen... probably just serilized and brainwashed... I still think the Achen and Tollans are kissing cousins.... but the Achen are tactical and practical where the Tollans are just avoiders!

Next week looks good! BUT WHERE IS THE T-MAN?

 

[skydiver]

you're welcome guys, happy to help.
sorry jsc i think joe is dead. i mean look how quickly the aschen were gonna bomb earth. they're no better than the goauld, in fact more dangerous.
the current theory is: their planet is overpopulated and they can't wage a military take over of other planets. i mean look how difficult and time consuming that is. but, if you befriend a race and help them...all the while you're slowly killing htem, then within a couple of centuries you have a totaly or pretty much totally abandoned planet. and it's all yours iwht most if not all of its tech intact if you want it or in the case of vorlian or whateve it was, yours to plow the city under and turn the whole planet into one giant farm. then you populate it with a few 1000 people, not enough to ever get together or have a chance to band together, keep them well fed adn happy and you've actually done what the goauld are trying for, world domiation with little to no casualties.
they're insidious and quite frankly worse than the goauld.

i think as fast as they were gonna bomb earth, joe is a gonner. they can't have anyone around who suspects/knows the truth.

remember in 2010 about hammy's heart attack? maybe he found out something and was killed for it

 

[nic]

Well I managed to catch the episode this afternoon at the archive site.
I must say I did enjoy it... plus I also really liked Joe!
(Much better than the "future" joe!):kisses:

 

[Nora]

2001

Liked the episode very much.

Just one quibble, like Skydiver I was amazed that Sam was lying hurting on the floor and none of her team mates moved to seat by her, helped her, they just were standing there like she was unhurt, kept on talking. What would have been wrong to show some concern? No "shippy" stuff, just plain team mate solidarity stuff by ANY of them.

I remember in other episodes where one of them was hurt, the others sat or knelt beside them.

 

[Jaxie]

noooooooooooooooooo. are the writers trying to kill off all the s/j shippers that are still around.

if next week has zip shippiness i'm going to go into depression and watch all the eppies that actually had shippiness.

*sulks in the corner*

sounds like a good ep. but i've made a resolution to stop watching them on the archive site. they tart airing season 5 soon here anyway.

ciao
jaxie

 

[skydiver]

that bugged me too norita. some folks brought up the point, yes there is a medic there, and yes you don't go jerking around on someone who's just been tossed around like that, you might make stuff worse, but they could at least LOOK like they give a darn. i mean it was like they were afraid she had soemthing contageous and didn't want to get too close.

all i know is i arn well better get some good smarmy h/c fic outta this one....sam don't get whumped all that often and we gotta make the most of it

 

[Jaxie]

sounds like she was really in pain. dang, sounds like a 'hole' in the direction. if you get what i mean

but apart form that ending. none of you have mentioned 'looks' between joe and sam. were there any?

while i'm at it. any memorable quotes?

ciao
jaxie

 

[nic]

Originally posted by Jaxie
none of you have mentioned 'looks' between joe and sam. were there any?

Okay, I'll try an tackle that question. (Hopfully including some stuff that means 3 years of film and television theory hasn't been a waist!)
In my opinion, yeah there was some sparks between Joe and Sam.

Okay, so we know in 2010 they were married. So now we get to watch the day when Sam and Joe first meet.
I was really looking forward to this because although Joe was a "good guy" (Now I know many people would argue that Joe was not really a good guy, since he knew the Aschen where limiting the growth of the human population, however, Joe thought did think he was doing it for the best.)
in 2010 he did seem a serious character who seemed not so much "controlling", but really "protective" over Sam.
Which is why I was a little put off by him.
In 2010 married life seemed to have made Samantha more.... homely. Not so much like the kick-ass, independant Sam we had been watching for 4seasons, and I think in cases that was also blamed on Joe.
Actually, in my opinion, Joe and Sam didn't seem to have that much chemistry between them in 2010.
Joe was still working as Ambassador and seemed pretty happy.
On the other I think Sam felt rather directionless.
She was now working in an Aschen lab, no longer out in the field. Also, desperate for a child, but having no success.
I think (like Janet) she felt unneeded in this new world, until they discovered the Aschen's plans!! Did you guys she how quickly she zapped back into the old Samantha?!

Anyway, this is all starting to drift away from the question at hand! Or is it? After all, their future is our past (if that makes any sence!) So we have already been shown their marriage, so now lets see how it started!
Were they friends first and then developed into something more? Or was it love at first site?

In my opinion, it was somewhere inbetween. Perhaps attraction at first sight.
There is quite a few cute scenes like in the gateroom before they embark.
Joe has a kind of "innocence" about the Stargate, like a child who's gone to Disney world. I think Sam found it quite sweet.

The most obvious sign of attracting was when Joe asked to take her out next time he was back, to which she happily excepted.
Now the fact the characters delivered these lines right infront of JAck was not an accident.
The writters said they were cooling down the "J+S" storyline this season, and what better way that to have Sam accept a date right infront of Jack without Sam even giving a quite uncertain glance in Jack's direction, and no hint of jealously at all from Jack.
I think Sky already said it, but I've you hadn't seen 2010, you would have though Jack and Joe could have been best pals!

So yeah, I think there was an attraction.
But that sort of vanished at the end, when it came to saving the world there was no time for romantic thinking.

Plus, Sam showed less concern for the loss of Joe (maybe cos she was in so much physical pain) than she did for Narim, Martouf, or Orlin.
But that's probably because she had known them longer, and the way their deaths were given to us, we where meant to see a reaction from Sam. Where as, the ending in this episode was meant to show how close the world had come to being destroyed.

Like you guys, I really don't like that last scene. The focus was too much on the Senator's threats and our guys standing up to him, than the fact Carter was lying on the floor.
I would at least have expected Daniel, who is the most sensitive, to at least ask if she was fine.

 

[bummer]

Did anyone else get the impression that Senator Kinsey's whole thing this time was jealousy of Jack?? It seemed like the whole conversation in the limo revolved around Kinsey wanting to take Jack down a notch or two...

And it was a minor thing, but I loved the bit at the end when Kinsey was threatening everyone when he stormed out of the gate room and Jack said "O'Neill--two l's"...and held up three fingers

 

[Mellian]

I liked the scene in this episode where Daniel and Tealc are in the underground city. Daniel says he is going to check out this building and Tealc tells him it isn't a good idea. Daniel just looks at him and says he knows, then I'm going to check out this building.

Also liked Daniel's idea of how to find out what the Aschen are up to. Giving Sam that word and having Borren translate it.

Kinsey definetly has a problem with O'Neill. It is like he is transfixed on him over everything else. All he really cares about is hurting Jack.

Poor Sam just doesn't have much luck with the men. Of course she didn't get a chance to know Joe that well. But you could tell there where sparks of interest between the two.

Well there is a good chance Joe is dead, there is a slight possibility he is alive. But I think the Aschen would only keep him alive to try and get more info out of him about the Stargate system etc., something which he doesn't know that much about.

I also would have liked a little more reaction when Sam came tumbling through the gate. After all she is part of your team and a friend you think at least one of the guys would have moved towards her to check her out even if there was a medic there.

 

[skydiver]

with kinsey it IS all about him.
(my interpretation of how kinsey sees things)

jack is not bringing back tech because kinsey wants it

jack is not making alliances because as soon as there is one his job is done and he's retired

jack is fighting to keep the sgc the way it is because jack wants to keep fighting the goauld and making a name for himself

jack foiled kinsey's plans in chain reaction in revenge for kinsey trying to shut them down

kinsey hates jack because, well think back to the politics storyline, betcha jack & co saving the planet tossed a few dozen eggs on kinsey's face adn embarrassed him real good, for kinsey it's personal.

for jack it isn't, until kinsey gets in his face then it is

kinsey's just gotten in jack's face and ...it's war.

jack isn't going to go after kinsey or anythign but these two men are now enemies and the only way its gonna end is with one of them totally discredited adn in disgrace (anyone wanna bet that's how things ended in the 2010 timeline)

now, if kinsey has anything to do with sam getting snagged next week, hammy better lock the armory cauase noone messes with one of jack's kids

 

[Nora]

I agree with Nic and Skydiver completely.

Kinsey is a very dangerous man, he wants to nail Jack and Gen. Hammond so badly he doesn't care how he does it. It's entirely personal to him.

As for Joe, I really liked him on this one, he was very sweet and Sam seem to enjoy his company. And he did the right and brave thing when he sacrificed himself so that Sam could escape (and Earth would be saved, natch).

I am not a shipper, I think it dilutes Sam and Jack's professionalishm. It casts a doubt on any recomendation or evaluation that Jack as her superior officer would do regarding her conduct. I have watched co-workers getting involved with bosses and I know how ugly the comments get. If the woman (it's always a woman) gets a raise or a promotion they say it's because she is sleeping/dating/whatever the boss.

Having said that when the show winds down if Jack and Sam declare their love for one another and marriy (with the whole SGC or what's left of it watching) I wouldn't mind. But not now! It becomes a soap-opera and a melodrama. I really liked the idea of a very beautiful woman working closely together with 3 very attractive men (each in his own way) and no romance was involved. Caring for each other, friendship yes, but not love. It seemed out of place. I don't know, to me, at this moment in time, it diminishes Sam.

 

[bummer]

I just watched it again, and it still strikes me as rather bizarre... For one thing, when Sam flies down the ramp and tells them about the bomb and such, Kinsey is busy yelling in Jack's ear, demanding to know what's going on, etc, etc....shouldn't he have been asking those questions of General Hammond?? Especially since it was his doing to leave Jack out of that last visit to the Aschen in the first place!

Plus, he acted like Jack's entire involvement in the Stargate program was to thwart his bid for the Presidency. This man has some definite Jack-issues Can't wait to see what Jack does to him!

 

[tatter]

i'm with you jaxie.... the total lack of shippyness this season is starting to bug me. i really don't think they should develop the s/j relationship,, but come on sam was really hurt and all jack could say was you ok carter? and not really look concerned. and danny and teal'c too. bad boys... bad:dead:

they better be frantic and concerned next week.

it seems they are so worried about too much shippyness or sam the space slut that they have gone totally in the opposite direction...sam the black widow..kiss of death!

 

[Jaxie]

amen to that my sista

 

[bummer]

That was really weird, wasn't it? They all just stood there as if she had strolled down the ramp. Not only did none of them seem concerned for her welfare, they didn't even act surprised or agitated at her sudden ejection from the gate...much less that the ambassador was MIA.... Not only would you expect them to help her out and be concerned, you would also expect a bit of adrenaline and excitement...they were all standing around as if they were watching someone mow the yard or something

 

[Arc_Angel]

I've just seen some pics od this ep, one of her just b4 she flie through the gate and one where she's sprawled on the steps, she must have really flown fast to end up there, and the only one bothered about her is the doctor, I mean, they're supposed to be her friends, you'd think that they'd be a little concerned that she was in pain, they didn't even look bothered, I don't know if thats what they wanted to come through or it was a mistake and they were supposed to act bothered, but they seemed totally out of character there, am I the only one who think this?

 

[Nora]

Yes, this has nothing to do with shippiness. They all have showed concern for one another in other ocassions. Remember Jack in Message in a Bottle, they all ran towards him. Or when Jack was wounded with that arrow in that episode (forgot the name) Daniel supported him. Or when Teal'c came back from the planet in One False Step, they all were by his side in the ramp. Maybe this is a rection against the shippiness (which btw I am against) but it's all wrong. They were just standing there as if nothing had happened, as if Carter coming flying through the gate was a normal occurrance, as if the Ambassador missing was OK. Wrong, wrong, wrong!