5.21: Meridian

[orange]

End part

Originally posted by Aphrodite

..His part was the only bit I found moving...and the end part was awful.

Teal'c is cool. His emotions seemed somewhere between Jack's reluctance to express and Sam's weepiness.

As to the end part: The way DJ was written out would not be my favorite choice, but I thought it was beautifully subtle, skillfully played. No hugs, just pure choked up feelings.

So I am curious, what didn't you like about the end part?
Anyone else like or dislike it?

- O

 

[skoon]

I'll tell you next week when I see it. WHAT! We don't get to see Jack cry?!?! I hate it when it's the women that cry. My roomie...a guy crys at the drop of a hat, I can cry if someone dropped a car on me.

 

[skydiver]

the episode starts with sam & danny coming back, sam telling them that he's been exposed to radiation...and it's a lethal dose. which is ok i guess, i mean who needs the suspense of whether he's going to live or die, we already know the outcome.

and i was happy that they tried all their options, called the asgard, the tok'ra, jack thought of going for a sarc that the sgc knows aobut, sam tried the healing device...(it was a heart wrenching scene when she couldn't make it work...in fact she sent him into a seizure)

the good byes were allnice...jack...we all know he doesn't do emotion well. sam was teary adn teal'c...i lost it when teal'c saluted him (it's hard to see but the right fist over the heart is a jaffa salute)

all in all it's not too bad and i've certainly seen worse

 

[imported_Aphrodite]

Re: End part

Originally posted by orange



Teal'c is cool. His emotions seemed somewhere between Jack's reluctance to express and Sam's weepiness.

As to the end part: The way DJ was written out would not be my favorite choice, but I thought it was beautifully subtle, skillfully played. No hugs, just pure choked up feelings.

So I am curious, what didn't you like about the end part?
Anyone else like or dislike it?

- O

..Hi Orange...I didn't like the last moments of the ep..
Jack.."So, see you around?"
Daniel.."I don't know"
Jack.."Where are you going?"
Daniel.."I don't know"

You've got to know where you are going. Those lines were just stupid..and even though Jack didn't hug him, he could have shook his hand or something. Dave didn't like the end part too. (A previous post)

 

[Hatshepsut]

<mode:sheepish>
Yeah, well... I didn't want to spoil it for you as it sounded like you hadn't watched it yet

Best wishes,
Hatshepsut - unaltered
:wave:
--

 

[orange]

Re: Re: End part

Originally posted by Aphrodite

..Hi Orange...I didn't like the last moments of the ep..
Jack.."So, see you around?"
Daniel.."I don't know"
Jack.."Where are you going?"
Daniel.."I don't know"

You've got to know where you are going. Those lines were just stupid..and even though Jack didn't hug him, he could have shook his hand or something. Dave didn't like the end part too. (A previous post)

Okay, I see what you are saying and the first time I watched it, since I was still incredulous at the whole bandaged-head thing, I thought the "i don't know" conversation was sparse, too tight. But on second viewing, I felt the words were conveyed with a great deal of intensity that worked well. Simple lines can be quite effective, delivered by an expert, like a master pianist playing a common tune - he breathes life into it.

On the hug - yeah, a little, quick one would have been sweet.
(more tears - wah!- for us)

As to knowing where you are going: I have thrown this around in my mind: Daniel would have had to feel that Jacob would only be able to give him part of his health back and perhaps that made going to a new place a better choice than going back? Just tossing ideas. Trying to see if I would take such a path - leaving everyone. If he'd had kids would he have fought harder to stay and live as a human being?

Daniel, like real people, was conflicted here: on one hand he says to Jack he is not more important than others (to which I wish Jack had said "nor less"), yet he tells Oma he feels like a failure - which means he feels he is above failing, in which case not equal to others, as we fail at some time in our lives.

So perhaps he was, in that confusion, searching for answers, not conveyed particularly clearly in the scenes with Oma as Daniel was as puzzled as I was, it seems, by her words initially.

- O

 

[Calen2k]

Heya, I'm new here, but I had to find some place to talk about this episode.

It just felt to me, like it was very rushed. Like MS just wanted to get out of there.
I mean why wasn't Hammond even a little bit suprised at the end when that white energy thingy
came out of :deadaniel:dead: ? And Jack....okay so maybe he's always like that, but I was hoping for a little
more than,
"you giving up?"
"no"
"okay, bye bye, have a nice trip keep in touch...or not!"

But it did feel way too...rushed. Maybe MS just wanted out asap.
Anyway, I loved Teal'c and Sam's interaction with :deadaniel:dead:
For what it was, it was touching, but it sould of been stretched out and made into a two parter. I mean come on, he's been there since before the start!
I expect they'll probably deal with it in the next episode, unless they do a Martouf on us.

 

[Anni]

Yes I think it was rushed. I think it was overfilled with the metaphysical.....almost as if the writers and producers were trying to say... "Hey look everyone.... we can come out with deep stuff..."

The problem is that this episode to me did not have any kind of proper closure to it...and yes I know the idea was to leave it open for Daniel to come back, presumably as Tinkerbell, but in all honesty it was 'full of sound and fury.....signifying nothing' It was a big nothing episode.

I have seen on the lists folk going all misty eyed over it and saying 'how sensitive, how touching.....wasn't it handled well." I can only think that the episode showing on my tv screen wasn't the same one they were watching.

I also wasn't sure about Oma Desala.......that corporate manager look was a new thing for her don't you think? With the sensible hairstyle and cute little earrings...... of course, the body doesn't really matter, or so she said. So really she could have appeared as Tinkerbell's mother and still handed out the cryptic cr*p. If I had been Daniel and dying in horrendous pain, I would have hard put not to punch her lights out and tell her to stop warbling on and get on with it. In fact Dear Old Dead Danny virtually did at one point if I remember rightly.

Come on guys.... this was a piece of maudlin guff. If I want to see stuff like this, I'll pay another visit to the oncology clinic, 'cos there I can see real dying people and I can tell you, nobody is wandering around spouting cutsie pie little pseudo religious rubbish. Everyone is there fighting for their lives.... I can think of a few of my compatriots there who wouldn't mind Jacob healing them even a little bit, just as long as they could stay alive a little longer and watch their kids grow up!

 

[Calen2k]

Lol, on the Oma thing..just what I thought. Maybe they didn't have the time to do the glowy
face thing this time. Maybe they were trying to say that's what she looked like before she died.
I don't know. On the Danny pain thing, he was pretty doped up(according to Janet) and he's not
the most 'just get on with it' person.

But overall, who know's why they had to rush it so much, maybe the writers were only given a
week to come up with something, not sure. As I already said, I hope the following episode gives
us a better more in-depth explanation. But I do intent to ask MS this weekend, if I get the
chance...."what the hell?" *g*

 

[orange]

Deep Stuff

Originally posted by Anni
Yes I think it was rushed. I think it was overfilled with the metaphysical.....almost as if the writers and producers were trying to say... "Hey look everyone.... we can come out with deep stuff..."

The problem is that this episode to me did not have any kind of proper closure to it...and yes I know the idea was to leave it open for Daniel to come back, presumably as Tinkerbell, but in all honesty it was 'full of sound and fury.....signifying nothing' It was a big nothing episode.

I have seen on the lists folk going all misty eyed over it and saying 'how sensitive, how touching.....wasn't it handled well." I can only think that the episode showing on my tv screen wasn't the same one they were watching.

I also wasn't sure about Oma Desala.......that corporate manager look was a new thing for her don't you think? With the sensible hairstyle and cute little earrings...... of course, the body doesn't really matter, or so she said. So really she could have appeared as Tinkerbell's mother and still handed out the cryptic cr*p. If I had been Daniel and dying in horrendous pain, I would have hard put not to punch her lights out and tell her to stop warbling on and get on with it. In fact Dear Old Dead Danny virtually did at one point if I remember rightly.

Come on guys.... this was a piece of maudlin guff. If I want to see stuff like this, I'll pay another visit to the oncology clinic, 'cos there I can see real dying people and I can tell you, nobody is wandering around spouting cutsie pie little pseudo religious rubbish. Everyone is there fighting for their lives.... I can think of a few of my compatriots there who wouldn't mind Jacob healing them even a little bit, just as long as they could stay alive a little longer and watch their kids grow up!

On that last part Anni- I think that's why I keep wondering why dj would've chosen to leave. No ties that bind? Insatiable curiosity? Too much pain to go back to? Just gave up? In a way, I feel like a piece is missing - I didn't see any previous development to show that he was disillusioned with his life and it seemed like all of a sudden we are getting these revelations from him about his opinion of himself. Was DJ always that uncertain? Have I been wrong all this time in my opinion of his character?

I was ready to punch Oma myself and it wasn't the suit. This episode had some redeemable parts but her riddles were distracting.

Anni - what kind of closure would you have imagined?

- O

 

[skoon]

I hope the next ep they don't act as if anything happend...like their friend & partner is gone oh well!

 

[Anni]

I think there are a couple of choices.... my main one's would be that Daniel dies......end of story. Given the poignancy of his life up till that point it would have made the ending more sensitive. Daniel....all of his losses.... finally biting the dust in a blaze of glory standing up for his principles.

Or he just leaves because he has a crisis of conscience over the increasingly gung ho and jingoistic attitudes of his team members. He doesn't want to leave the Stargate programme so he asks to be transferred to another team.

I have wracked my brains and can't for the life of me figure out why in hell he had to actually die. I am not sure what was in the minds of the writers to pour out this disjointed sh*t that they hurled at us last night.

But to tell you the truth, the character of Daniel Jackson had more guts and courage to him than any of the rest of them, especially Jack who seemed to be totally overwhelmed or perhaps he was underwhelmed, it's rather difficult to tell with the limited facial expressions the actor uses as his method of acting. Daniel seldom took the high moral ground or sat in judgement, preferring instead to be the voice of reason and equilibrium. I have met guys like him and believe me, they don't lie down and accept death as easily. People like him struggle and fight to live. They have a quiet strength.

I feel that the writers, producers of Stargate have done the actual characterisation of Daniel Jackson a great disservice. The actor wanted to leave, that was his choice, but the method that the writers chose to send him on his way was pitiful and insulting to say the least.

 

[Hatshepsut]

I disagree

Best wishes,
Hatshepsut :wave:
--

 

[Calen2k]

I'm not exactly sure, but I've read quite a few interviews from writers and other people who work with the show and apparently they go with the general consensus. I.e. the fans didn't want Daniel to die straight out, so they had to find another way to go about MS leaving.

Because, let's face it, he had to disapear somehow and I don't think having him live out his life on Earth would have worked out. He's just not the type of person to sit around and do nothing
while he still knows that the Gould are a threat.

Anni - I agree with you in that I think the way they had him 'give up' to an extent wasn't the way to go. But then again, he's not really giving up, he's carrying on somehow. Okay he didn't
know exactly how he was going to carry on, but that's another part of Daniel, his wild belief. He believes in things, in people and does things accordingly.

But I guess, I always thought he might have had some sense of being a failure because he couldn't save some people, but I never thought it was affecting him that badly. And that's another thing I think the writers portrayed badly, just bringing that up, making it so significant, where as before we hardly saw any of that, "I'm a failure" side of him before.

 

[skydiver]

it's possible that a hug wasn't physically possible. he was contaminated with radiation...and was even as he died if my science is right. yes they washed him down and all but it's possible that he was still contaminated and therefore physical contact with them may have been dangerous.

also towards the end...have you ever burned yourself? spilled the coffee, touched the wrong part of the oven? hurts like heck don't it...imagine being burned so badly that your skin discentigrated and your entire body was one huge open wound. that's what danny was like in the end. which is the reason for the bandages. his skin, muscle, etc would have been peeling off him.
likely a near overdose of morphine is all that kept him remotely comfortable. by then a hug would have been agony not a comfortr measure.

as to oma not being in full glow...maybe the effects of having her floating all the time was too hard to do? or maybe it would have just made conversation easier...or maybe danny saw her how he 'wanted to' see her. anyone watch DS9? remember how the wormhole aliens always appeared to sisko in the form of people sisko knew. it's possible he saw oma as human because he needed to

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Anni
...and yes I know the idea was to leave it open for Daniel to come back, presumably as Tinkerbell

I like it, Anni. So now Danny is a Lost Boy in Never, Never Land...

I still don't like that end bit, but that IS a personal opinion! I don't like all the metaphysical stuff either, but I can see that as they have already, previously introduced it, having Danny become a swirly-whirly is a natural progression, and not so strange really.

As far as the character interactions go, Sam would cry, Jack wouldn't know what to say, Teal'c would be Teal'c. I don't have a problem with that, I just didn't think it was a very good episode. And Skydiver, in your opinion, which episodes were worse than this, not very many?

 

[orange]

Hug

Originally posted by skydiver
it's possible that a hug wasn't physically possible. he was contaminated with radiation...and was even as he died if my science is right. yes they washed him down and all but it's possible that he was still contaminated and therefore physical contact with them may have been dangerous.
**snip**

I was thinking of a hug in their ethereal world, not in actuality. He was fine with Oma.

- O

 

[skoon]

I know someone or other will hate me for this but, is there at least a shippy moment at all, hinted or actual between Sam & Jack? Please, give me at least somthing to look forward to

 

[leprykawn]

Originally posted by stillzen
you know, i no longer watch the x files so much since mulder was abducted...

I no longer watch the X files since I was abducted ...

 

[ShelbyS]

Well, it's 3AM in Australia at the moment and Shelby has just finished watching Meridian. Beware I'm still in a little shock and a bit hysterical. But I've managed to pick myself up off the floor and stop crying (j/k - stop rolling you're eyes at me Anni, lol). I think I was crying for about 3/4 of this episode.

I agree with almost everything that everyone has mentioned. it seems that we're all inagreement with most of the things that happened, but here's my 2 cents anyway.

Firstly, I like the sequence at the end and how it was Jack that Daniel chose to communicate with. For me, I think it brought their relationship full circle. From teh beginning of the movie to this point in time, I think this scene exhibited the deep respect that they have for one another and how they are really true friends even though they disagree alot. Jack's bedside sequence with Daniel in the early stages of the ep was also very well done. Kudos to RDA. However, I agree that the last line were a little lame. If he was gonna say "Cya Around" , they could have at least put a "Dr Jackson" on the end of it, so we'd have that continuity line from the end of the movie and from Forever in a Day.

Secondly, and I don't think anyone has mentioned this. What was Janet doing in this episode?. I know she was doing her Dr. stuff and all, but we barely heard 2 words from the woman. Yeah, sometimes she looked a little teary, but hey, she's a much Daniels friend as any of them. I would have liked to see her talk to Daniel like SG-1 did. This too goes for General Hammon. Where was his emotional goodbye. They've worked together for 5 years.

Thirdly, was anyone else totally overwhelmed by the explanations of this doomsday machine they were making on the planet. It seemed like all the info was thrown at us at once. I I have to say I still dont fully understand all of it, and why it was important that Daniel sacrifice himself for the world. I think they had us concentrating too much on DJ's condition at the beginning to worry about the details of the mission. I found it very dauntying trying to follow it all (or maybe this was cos it was 2AM and I had been up all night waiting for the download to finish, who knows)

Random Thoughts:
* I hate this Quinn guy. Someone said before he's like a 2D cutout. I couldn't agree more. And I agree with what Shanks said about trying to fit him into this ep. I just didn't seem right. It was so obvious that they were building up to incorperating him into the SGC at a later time after DJ was gone. Like that scene where he is talking with Daniel and he says that he wants to know what's going on "out there". It just seemed so artifical, and then when he betrayed his government. It just seemed so pradictable.

* Loved the actress who played Oma.

* In the Oma sequences, I got the feeling that Daniel had given up. This bothered me in some ways because he's always so passionate and knows the importance of life. I thought is was kinda weird how he thought that nothing he did had ever mattered. But the seqences had a sort of continuity with the FIAD, MI and AP Harcesis/Kheb arcs. I did like how they incorperated his feelings for Shar'e into this sequence though.

*In all honesty I would have expected a more clear and layed out plot from Rob Cooper. I was really surprised that he had written this ep since I think he is the best writer that the show has (hey I guess it's gotten to the stage where anyone is better than M&M). AS for the director, it was someone I've never heard of, I think it was his first SG ep. I thought that this was a little odd. I was expecting DeLuise to have been the director.

Overall, I give it maybe a 6 at best. I don't think its an episode I'll be watching again for a long time.

Goodnight guys, Shelby's going to be with a box of tissues. :crying: