Pure Speculation RE; A Song of Ice and Fire.

[Brian G Turner]

Again this is speculation. Since Martin seems to delight in breaking the conventional rules of heroic fantasy, I thought I'd follow with some strange ideas.

Shame - they were sometimes *very* strange ideas - but you almost convinced me with the Tyrion idea - seems Tywin was simply lacking "proof" as opposed to "suspicion".

And welcom to the chronicles network.

 

[Boaz]

Thanks for the welcome. I, um, seem to have posted on a number of threads all at once. Probably most of what I posted has been hashed and rehashed, but this is the first time I've ever discussed ASOIAF, so I apologize for numerous posts and the reviving of old threads.

More speculation.

The Lannisters sent a fake Arya to wed Ramsay Bolton, the ******* of the Dreadfort, right? As soon as fake Arya gives birth to a healthy son, she's dead. Or Ramsay might take one of his own bastards from some serving wench, call it Arya's son, and murder fake Arya.

Did I read that Roose Bolton will be the new Warden of the North or did I just imagine this? Either way, he must be payed by the Lannisters. I think he will soon be Lord and Warden of the North. He might even take fake Arya for himself to strengthen his claim on Winterfell. The problem with Starkland is that it's full of Starks... breed them out! (Is it just me or is Starkland reminiscent of Scotland... the t and k sounds are transposed... and then it also seems to correspond geographically to the England analogy...) Roose Bolton would be just the sort to grant Prima Nocte.

Robb in everything but looks was his father's son. Character, honor, emotions, religion, and martial prowess. Remember that Ned got his wife pregnant just before going to war, well it seems that the dutiful son probably did the same. So what happens to Jeyne Westerling and her babe? Since the Tullys are out of favor (Edmure is a captive of the Freys), a new lord of the Trident is in order. If the new lord has not been named (he probably has and I've forgotten), then it will be Littlefinger of Harrenhal or Walder Frey of the Twins. Either way, the new lord will demand that Jeyne and her baby be turned over, if Cersei does not demand her to make obesience. She will have to be smuggled out of Riverrun by the Blackfish, the Mallisters, the Reeds, or the Manderlys. But, remember her uncle Rolph Spicer seems to be a nasty fellow and loyal to Casterly Rock... he might get his hands on her also. My guess is that the Lannisters get their hands on this newborn son, the true heir of Winterfell. He will probably be named Robb or Ned.

If Cersei is forced to wed, she'll choose someone she can manipulate, not someone to fulfill her romantically. She may perceive Willas Tyrell, the cripple, to be that man. Then again she knows the marriage must be consumated, so she won't pick someone totally disgusting...ie. it won't be Lord Gyles. But she may choose a very strong man to hold the throne for Tommen. In the Cersei preview chapter from ASOS, Kevan suggests Randyll Tarly or Mathis Rowan... both strong men. I don't know the marital status of Addam Marbrand and Amory Lorch, but both are loyal Lannister men. And because these are the pros and cons, Cersei will do none of those and marry the Sealord of Braavos. She'll hope that foreign swords will strengthen her cause.

Then again Cersei may marry Willas just to keep Mace, Loras, and the Queen of Thorns in line.

 

[Culhwch]

Remember that Ned got his wife pregnant just before going to war, well it seems that the dutiful son probably did the same.

I've heard speculation that young Jeyne's mother was playing both sides. They had little choice but to side with the Starks, having lost their castle to Robb, but the mother may also have kept an ace up her sleeve should Tywin prevail. Jeyne mentions to Catelyn that her mother is giving her herbs to make her fertile - some believe that they were in fact to keep her infertile and heirless, making their transition back into Lannister bannermen all the more painfree. I'm leaning towards this theory.

I don't know the marital status of Addam Marbrand and Amory Lorch, but both are loyal Lannister men.

Thmall note: I believe Ther Amory wath fed to the bear by Vargo Hoat.

 

[Boaz]

I've heard speculation that young Jeyne's mother was playing both sides. They had little choice but to side with the Starks, having lost their castle to Robb, but the mother may also have kept an ace up her sleeve should Tywin prevail. Jeyne mentions to Catelyn that her mother is giving her herbs to make her fertile - some believe that they were in fact to keep her infertile and heirless, making their transition back into Lannister bannermen all the more painfree. I'm leaning towards this theory.

I can't argue against that.

Thmall note: I believe Ther Amory wath fed to the bear by Vargo Hoat.

Ith that tho! I confeth it thlipped my mind.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Thaphireth!!

 

[Boaz]

LOL! Thath tho thtinking hilariouth! Whoopth, I'm thtarting to thlobber.

 

[Sword of the Morning]

I'd have to say that A Feast for Crows is going to be a filler. By that I mean the characters will have time to grow and develope, For instance Dany's dragons grow, she learns to rule a city, while Sam is hard at working becoming a maester.

Next person to get wacked is going to be one of the Frey's, hopefully Walder, or Cersei. Walder Frey can't last any longer with all of the power hungry offspring around him. One of his sons will do the deed, another curse. About Cersi I believe that Jaime will in the end see Cersei for what see is, back stabbling two bit wench. I'd rather like to see Jaime catching Cersei and Osmund Kettleblack in bed and killing both in a fit of rage.

One thing that bothers about Jon and his mother/father. Yes Ned doesn't say who the mother was. He rage is appartent in one of Catelyn's chapters, when she confronts him about Jon. The Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark theory is sound, the time line fits in with the rebellion and all, but in two instances a lady by the name Wylla is named as the mother. Eddard tells Robert of her in AGoT and the squire Edric Dayne tell Arya about how Jon and he were milk brothers. Believe what you will, but only time will tell.

Another war/reballion will happen. Dorne will raise up against the Lannisters. With the death of Tywin I don't think the alliance of Tyrell, Lannister, and Martell can be held together, Cersei will see to that. The death of Oberyn, the Red Viper, will fuel Doran's need to get revenge for the death of Elia and her children.

 

[Frey Slayer]

Very well thought out Sword OTM. Of course my ears perk up when the subject of the Frey's is brought up. Im wondering how Littlefinger will respond to Catelyn's murder???

I **hope** we will get more than just filler. Im thinking our journey into Dorne is going to be quite interesting. It is truly a whole other land for us to explore and given the residents we have seen so far I am sure there are many many exciting things happening.

Cersei's death at the hands of Jaime would be quiet a powerful scene! Interesting to ponder!

 

[Culhwch]

I don't think Jaime would murder Cersei. I think as he changes the distance between them will grow until he is almost apathetic towards her - or at least acts that way - which will annoy her no end. And I don't think Cersei would stoop so low as to bed Kettleblack in the first place. There are far more influential targets for her charms in King's Landing than an upjumped sellsword.

And I think the ideas about the 'curse' coming back to haunt the Freys is an interesting one. I'm sure we'll see a number of the Freys meet a grisly end before the book is done, much like the epilogue of ASoS. Which will be fantastic. Though I'd prefer to See Lord Walder witness the slow demise of his House rather than go first...

 

[Brian G Turner]

Im wondering how Littlefinger will respond to Catelyn's murder???

That's a very good point - few people currently in power seem to have any real motivation to despise the Freys. Except perhaps now Littlefinger. All the more interesting considering his association with Sansa.

 

[Sword of the Morning]

I don't think Jaime would murder Cersei. I think as he changes the distance between them will grow until he is almost apathetic towards her - or at least acts that way - which will annoy her no end. And I don't think Cersei would stoop so low as to bed Kettleblack in the first place. There are far more influential targets for her charms in King's Landing than an upjumped sellsword

I personally think he would. I think that Jaime is starting to see that Cersei only loves herself. Being with Jaime to her is like being with herself, since they are twins (identical i think). Jaime's fever dream of being left under the rock by Cersei has to forshadow something in turn. Cersei took Lancel into her bed. A poor copy of Jaime. I don't see the how Lancel could need influencing. As far as Cersei and Kettleblack, Tyrion said as much when Jaime saved the Tyrion. Tyrion even implemented Moon boy.

Cersei does not want to remarry any time soon, so its safe to say that she only needs her one handed boy toy.

 

[Culhwch]

I thought Tyrion's words to Jaime were fuelled by anger over Tysha, and not true - thus the Moon Boy comment. Plus earlier I think there is a mention that hints and innuendo and the mere thought he may one day find himself in Cersei's bed were enough to keep Kettleblack in her palm, without ever having to complete the transaction, as it were....

Cersei killing Jaime I can (maybe) see, but not the other way. Jaime was far more devoted to Cersei than Cersei was to him, and despite events I don't think he'd cast aside those feelings so wholeheartedly as to be able to kill her.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Plus earlier I think there is a mention that hints and innuendo and the mere thought he may one day find himself in Cersei's bed were enough to keep Kettleblack in her palm, without ever having to complete the transaction, as it were.....

Yes, I think Varys had a conversation with Tyrion about that.

Cersei killing Jaime I can (maybe) see, but not the other way. Jaime was far more devoted to Cersei than Cersei was to him, and despite events I don't think he'd cast aside those feelings so wholeheartedly as to be able to kill her.

I could see Cersei killing Jaime as well, but somehow I doubt even Cersei would be so stupid as to kill off pretty much the only one out of her dwindling number of family members who has any loyalty to her. And I agree- Jaime wouldn't kill Cersei. The new Jaime would never want to add fratricide (?) to the crime of killing the King he was sworn to protect.

 

[Sword of the Morning]

Cersei killing Jaime I can (maybe) see, but not the other way. Jaime was far more devoted to Cersei than Cersei was to him, and despite events I don't think he'd cast aside those feelings so wholeheartedly as to be able to kill her.

I could, possible, be wrong about Cersei and Jaime.I still have the feeling that Cersei is taking Kettleblack into her bed.

 

[Culhwch]

And I agree- Jaime wouldn't kill Cersei. The new Jaime would never want to add fratricide (?) to the crime of killing the King he was sworn to protect.

Excellent point. I hadn't thought of that, but it's right on the money. Jaime's trying to arrest his fall, and fill the rest of his page in the White Book with deeds to inspire. Offing his sis in a jealous rage probably wouldn't look great on the CV.

 

[Frey Slayer]

Excellent point. I hadn't thought of that, but it's right on the money. Jaime's trying to arrest his fall, and fill the rest of his page in the White Book with deeds to inspire. Offing his sis in a jealous rage probably wouldn't look great on the CV.

I concur, an excellent point. I expect to see a much different Jaime from now on.

 

[gigi]

I think Jamie will confront Cercei about what he and Tyrion talked about, finding out how shallow she is. Then he'll leave Kings Landing to go find Brienne and they'll get together. I've always had the hots for Brienne.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I think Jamie will confront Cercei about what he and Tyrion talked about, finding out how shallow she is. Then he'll leave Kings Landing to go find Brienne and they'll get together.

Hmmm... maybe. Seems a little too storybook-romance for GRRM, though.

I've always had the hots for Brienne.

Ha, I hope you haven't seen the original player's card for her in the board game. She looks like a swamp-hag, complete with reddish eyes, green-grey skin, and mossy colored hair.

 

[Sword of the Morning]

Ha, I hope you haven't seen the original player's card for her in the board game. She looks like a swamp-hag, complete with reddish eyes, green-grey skin, and mossy colored hair.

Due true. The game card is quite scary.

Another note. I've been thinking about Stannis. I remember reading a conversation Stannis had with Davos. Stannis, i guess, saw the future of his death. I think he said that he saw himself consumed by his crown or flames that melting the crown around him (something like that). What does everyone else think about his vision? Could this be a hint on what Dany does when she reaches the Wall? I'm clueless on this one, help.

Another note. Does Melisandre of Asshai and Thoros of Myr march to the same god? Yes the say that they follow the Lord of the Light. But Melisandre all ways looks to take a life when ever she can. She is all ways burning something, consuming. On the other hand Thoros gives life back. He has keep the Lord Beric alive with his "power". I would have to believe that he also reannimated Catelyn at the end of A Storm of Swords. How can ond priest give life will the other takes. It does not make sense to me. I could be overlooking something. But I'm think that one of the two is playing false. One of them follows the one that can not be named. Discuss.

 

[Culhwch]

But I'm think that one of the two is playing false. One of them follows the one that can not be named. Discuss.

Not necessarily. Just look at the different ways people worship the same God/s in this world, and the different interpretations of religious texts and doctrines. I think they both worship Rh'llor, but in their own manner.