Jon Snow's true parentage...

Tansy said:
Just watching the 3rd episode now and seems they are trying to make us think this in the series lol, maybe its a red herring, but it would tie Jon to the North
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Could you be more specific please?
 
The scenes between Benjen and Jon jump out to me, in the show Jon resembles Benjen a lot, and Benjen tries to steer Jon away from the Night's Watch, telling him he doesn't yet know what he is giving up and looks longingly at him, ie having a family etc. Then as he heads for the wall Ned pulls Jon to oneside and when asked about his mother says he will tell him of it next time they meet and I think the looks towards Benjen.. maybe it is his father he is going to tell him about?

Then as Jon climbs the wall and looks out Benjen is there, as he wanted to be there the first time Jon saw the North, his homeland maybe? Then he tells him he is riding out and Jon want's to go with him and he tells him he isn't ready/pushes him away knowing Jon would be at risk in the Northlands and trying to protect him?

Just seems a lot more of an emotional tie between Jon and Benjen than I remember reading the books. It kinda got me thinking that Jon having a tie beyond the wall and his link to Bran might all play out later when the wall (may) come down :)

I'm not saying there is anything in it it just seems to me the way the show wants me to think or that they are setting the trail so you aren't surprised later on when it is revealed that Ned isn't Jon's father. Also if Jon finds out that Bran goes North he is bound to go after them.. could be interesting! Jon's story line seems to be firmly established in the North and that's where Benjen is and the major threat to the kingdoms, Jon and Bran will be the ones to fight the others then once that is resolved they can head South

Ned's sister is hardly mentioned in the series, maybe they are saving her story for later?
 
Tansy said:
The scenes between Benjen and Jon jump out to me, in the show Jon resembles Benjen a lot, and Benjen tries to steer Jon away from the Night's Watch, telling him he doesn't yet know what he is giving up and looks longingly at him, ie having a family etc. Then as he heads for the wall Ned pulls Jon to oneside and when asked about his mother says he will tell him of it next time they meet and I think the looks towards Benjen.. maybe it is his father he is going to tell him about?

Then as Jon climbs the wall and looks out Benjen is there, as he wanted to be there the first time Jon saw the North, his homeland maybe? Then he tells him he is riding out and Jon want's to go with him and he tells him he isn't ready/pushes him away knowing Jon would be at risk in the Northlands and trying to protect him?

Just seems a lot more of an emotional tie between Jon and Benjen than I remember reading the books. It kinda got me thinking that Jon having a tie beyond the wall and his link to Bran might all play out later when the wall (may) come down :)

I'm not saying there is anything in it it just seems to me the way the show wants me to think or that they are setting the trail so you aren't surprised later on when it is revealed that Ned isn't Jon's father. Also if Jon finds out that Bran goes North he is bound to go after them.. could be interesting! Jon's story line seems to be firmly established in the North and that's where Benjen is and the major threat to the kingdoms, Jon and Bran will be the ones to fight the others then once that is resolved they can head South

Ned's sister is hardly mentioned in the series, maybe they are saving her story for later?
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It's not impossible, but I'm inclined to disagree. If Ben was Jon's father, what would be the reason for Ned keeping this from everyone, including his wife who is still hurt/angry about it. I guess if used used a B+L=J theory that would explain Ben going to the Wall (maybe), but I can't find a lot to agree with unfortunately, and I LOVE a good crackpot theory.
 
The Imp said:
If Ben was Jon's father, what would be the reason for Ned keeping this from everyone....
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Because of the oath Benjen took:

Hear my words and bear witness to my vow.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.
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And because Ned did not want to have to execute his brother. (It would also explain why GRRM makes such a big deal about Ned wielding the executioner's sword: to make Ned's dilemma that much greater.)
 
Just throwing it out there - if Benjen fathered a child and acknowledged him wouldn't he have to die for breaking his oath? Once Ned had promised not to tell I can't see him doing it whatever the consequences, Cat would have just have to put up with it as women have little rights against their lord and whoring seems to be the norm, oh and look at how he handles Cersei... too much honour by half lol


Edit: Xactly Ursa :) has no-one put this out there before, maybe GRRM wants you to think Ned's promise was about Jon but in fact it is entirely different. Benjen seems to be cut from the Stark cloth, it would take a bloody good reason for him to break his oath, maybe the one chance against the others, Jon found the Direwolves and convinced Ned to keep them, ghost can harm the others, coincidence? The series also seems to be taking the threat of the others seriously after the new scene with Tyrion, Benjen and er the recruiter guys for the watch can't remember his name

What if the whole point of showing Ned's resolute honor is to set up the fact that he kept something from his family that they would have understood and honoured themselves, something that would have allowed them to embrace Jon and due to his word in fact alienated him and set him on his path to the Kinght's Watch. Why would Ned die leaving Jon's parentage up in the air unless someone alive knew the truth. Maybe his pigheadedness set in place all the events that destroyed his family? After all GRRM did cast him aside rather easily, was it just for shock value or was setting Ned up as the hero all a red herring? He'd rather cause pain and dissension amongst his family than have to kill his brother even if both could be avoided through subterfuge, after all his is a Stark, by name and nature.
 
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Tansy said:
The scenes between Benjen and Jon jump out to me, in the show Jon resembles Benjen a lot, and Benjen tries to steer Jon away from the Night's Watch, telling him he doesn't yet know what he is giving up and looks longingly at him, ie having a family etc. Then as he heads for the wall Ned pulls Jon to oneside and when asked about his mother says he will tell him of it next time they meet and I think the looks towards Benjen.. maybe it is his father he is going to tell him about?
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I think it's probably just misdirection by the TV producers, so that the audience is absolutely shell-shocked when Jon's true parentage is revealed (which, for me, is R+L=J). I always just saw Benjen as a fond uncle to Jon. And, although the Night Watch are supposed to be family to each other, I always thought that Benjen rather liked the idea of having some real family there with him.

Which leads me to wonder ... do you think Benjen knew the truth of Jon's parentage (again, assuming R+L=J to be true)? I'm not sure of the timelines off the top of my head, but had Benjen already joined the Night Watch by the time Lyanna ran off/was kidnapped? Benjen and Ned seem to have a good relationship and I wonder if Ned would confide in him. After all, Lyanna was Benjen's sister too, so he would have no reason to jeopardize the life of his nephew. Just wondering ... :confused:
 
I'm kinda feeling that Jon has a link beyond the wall, maybe back to the Children as Benjen has wandered most and I have a feeling the children will be reawakened eventually.. I might be crazy lol but the wall is a falling :)

I've never bought the Lyanna theory - we have Dani for the Targs
 
You know, I agree with your general feeling about the wall & a connection to the Children of the Forest ... except that I think Bran will be the one to rediscover all of that. I think that's his role in the book.

The greatest thing about ASOIAF is that everyone has different theories and I love hearing 'em! :)
 
I think Bran will take over as the next (Crow? the guy up North he is searching/prophet) but the Wildlings need a hero one with 2 legs who can wield a sword and fight, someone to rally them, some one to cow Mellisandre and Stannis, some one one of the Lannisters (Tyrion) will listen to, a protector and they are setting Jon up for that as he already has a son by a Wildling and relationships between the Nights watch and the Wildlings. He even has the King Beyond the Wall son as hostage should he need it. He also knows that Obsidion kills the Others, he is in a unique position, did this happen by chance?

I just see the focus swinging North very soon and that being the battle that matters with Jon the one to turn the tide, he has all the info and connections he just needs to put it all together and believe in himself
 
Will we ever know what happened to Benjen? I thought maybe at the end of Storm of Swords we'd find out, but he's been MIA a long time.
 
As have the Others - it will all happen in flash and all come together :)
 
I have been on a mission lately to prove (before we are told) the R+L=J theory. The more I search the more convinced I become. Just 220 pages into GoT this is what I have found:

First we have to get ages straight- at the beginning of GoT Robb and Jon are both 14, Dany 13. Catelyn says they spent that year apart so she understood Ned had "needs", he had needs immediately after leaving her but never again, I think not!

Dany imagines-"Her brother Rhaegar battling the Usurper in the bloody waters of the Trident for the women he loved." Elia? Doubtful.

Ned to Robert- "She wanted to come home. To rest beside Brandon and Father." He could still hear her at times. Promise me, she had cried in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes.
A promise to take her home has haunted Ned so long? Not likely.

She would have feared so not going home? Less likely.

Fever. Childbed fever anyone?

Ned to Catelyn- "Never ask me about Jon,".... "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know." Again "my blood" not my "son."

After Robert took King's Landing, Ned and Robert fought over the death of Rheagar's children. Ned went south to fight the last battles by himself. "It had taken another death to reconcile them Lyanna's. I was sure I had a reason for including this one, now I can't remember it! :eek:

Ned to Robert, speaking of finding Jaime in the throne room, he thinks " He had lived with his lies for 14 years, yet they still haunted him at night." He never lied to Robert about Jaime just omitted a few things, so what lies haunt him?

Most telling of all that I missed many times before:
Ned to Arya- Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."
If Arya looks like Lyanna and Arya looks like Jon, then Jon must look like Lyanna not Ned!

That is all I have for now, when I find more I will gleefully add to this!

Please feel free to help me in my mission!! :D
 
Maybe because Rhaegar children where brutally killed. And honourable Ned was disgusted by Robert stance towards it. Aided perhaps as well by the existance of Jon.
 
Robert would have killed baby Jon if he'd known that he was Rhaegar's child (since he was of the belief that Rhaegar repeatedly raped Lyanna).
 
Needle, I can give you a link that breaks down the entire theory with complete evidence just like you're doing. It's probably already linked somewhere in this thread. I will say that what you're finding is spot on.
 
Thanks viZion I would appreciate the link if you have it. I have become just a little obsessed with the matter!
 
Needle said:
Ned to Robert- "She wanted to come home. To rest beside Brandon and Father." He could still hear her at times. Promise me, she had cried in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes.
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During my first re-read (post AFFC) this was the part that made me think up this theory and subsequently go online to find a lot of others had thought it up too :D
 
Could Jon's potential Targness have anything to do with Ned's refusal to play a part in the assassination of Daenerys? I know Ned's an honorable man and would probably be against the murder of children in general - but Daeny is a genuine threat, and her actions and ambitions are not those of a normal child. Why does Ned not see this? Is it because he's raised a Targ of his own? Does he have a bit of a blind spot for Daeny because of his relationship with Jon?

Or am I reading too much into it?
 
I think you are reading too much into it. Ned is simply too honourable to order the murder of a child who, at that point, really did seem to pose no threat to the kingdom except in Robert's mind. I do wonder how he'd have felt were he still hand and following Dany's exploits through the remaining books...
 
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