The Revived Tolkien Trivia

[Grimward]

You (as usual) are correct, Sir Py. A westward-rising ring to you and the honors of the challenge floor.

*Takes a seat next to far, hope and other shadowy, less-recent participants to await the next enigma*

 

[Pyan]

Ringses is it, not bells? And what else has he got in his pocketses, then?

Okay, try this: If the first line is for the teeth, what would the second line involve?

Quotes not needed, but where the answer lies is required.

 

[Grimward]

My bad...*appropriates the offending ring object and swiftly tucks a westward-rising bell in the green one's pocket, then beats a hasty retreat back to the gallery*...had rings on my mind when replying, apparently...

As for the challenge, hmmmm....

 

[hopewrites]

*picks Grim's pocket for the coveted western ring, upon his return. Passes the popcorn to cover her movement, and ponders the riddle*

Just thinking out loud here...
If "thirty white horses on a red hill" refers to teeth, the second line "first they stamp," could be teething, if "then they champ" refers to chewing, and "then they stand still" references a dentureless state of mouth.

Which would have the answer in Golum's cave, where the riddle contest happened.

Or I'm wrong and it's all in my head.

Tbh it's one of those riddles I've never understood.

 

[Pyan]

An ingenious and plausible theory, Hope, but alas, not what I was looking for. It's in a different book, and much later in that book than the Riddle-game is in The Hobbit...

 

[hopewrites]

Mmm tantalizing clue.

 

[farntfar]

Hmm. Later in another book.
I was thinking about the towers of the teeth at the gates of Mordor, but I couldn't make the rest fit.

 

[Grimward]

*Assists far*

Had the same idea, but far posted first, so here you go, good sir; hand this to Py...

The jaws and mouth(e)?

This was Cirith Gorgor, the Haunted Pass, the entrance to the land of the Enemy. High cliffs lowered upon either side, and thrust forward from its mouth were two sheer hills, black-boned and bare. Upon them stood the Teeth of Mordor, two towers strong and tall.

The Two Towers, Book 4, Chapter III The Black Gate is Closed

It was used by patrols or by messengers going swiftly to lesser posts and strongholds north-away, between Cirith Ungol and the narrows of Isenmouthe, the iron jaws of Carach Angren.

The Return of the King, Book 6, Chapter II The Land of Shadow

The Return of the King, Map 4 and the Final Map, detailing Morannon and Isenmouthe

 

[farntfar]

No, Grim. My idea was very vague, and I could get any detail to fit.
It's yours (if it's what Py was after. )

 

[Pyan]

Afraid not - and you're all cold, cold, cold.
Clue 2 needed?

 

[farntfar]

Not yet, Py.
Give us a while longer.
It's a good challenge.

 

[Pyan]

*drums tentacles on desk...*

 

[farntfar]

Yes. I think the 2nd clue might be in order after all.

 

[Pyan]

Hokay:

The third and fourth lines vary: the fifth is for the nose...

and remember I'm looking for what the second line is for.

 

[hopewrites]

*Goes looking for a song about a dragon*

 

[Pyan]

Another clue?

The sixth line is for the weakest - it's made of the smallest and simplest...

 

[hopewrites]

Ent song????? The one about the races of middle earth???

Hang on, what is that song? Where do teeth come in?
*snatches trilogy off shelf*





... No.
Not that song.

 

[Grimward]

Well, the clue about the 6th line killed my reach of an idea regarding the Gollum's Song/Gollum's riddle combination...still looking...

 

[farntfar]

Well now. this is a tricky one.
It might be useful to bring all the clues together.
If the first line is for the teeth, what would the second line involve?
The third and fourth lines vary: the fifth is for the nose...
The sixth line is for the weakest - it's made of the smallest and simplest...

We're all working on the assumption that its a poem, but Py hasn't said that.
If it is, then The third and fourth lines vary implies that its a poem with several verses and that the other bits apply to all the verses, which makes me think more of a song than a poem.
So, possibly a silly song like the one about Bombadil and the troll, or the song of the Ents and the Entwives, but neither of those fit the clues.
Nor anything else I can find in LOTR or the Silmarillion.

So then I thought of lines as lines of people in a battle, but what would that mean, and especially difficult is "for the nose"
Or line in a chart or a family tree, but again nose? and teeth?

I'm still persuaded by this lines of battle idea, with the sixth line being the smallest and the simplest.
Animals coming up at the last and hurling themselves at the enemy. There's definitely a memory there, but I can't quite catch it. Or an I thinking of Narnia or something?

 

[Pyan]

You're all so cold, you may as well be climbing to the Redhorn Gate on Caradhras... Time to narrow the field a bit:

• It's not a poem
• It's in one of the volumes of LotR, ( that's the standard 3-volume edition - I'm using my 9th Impression 1962 edition)
• Lateral thinking is required, but it's one of those that you'll kick yourselves for not working it out.
• Certain words in the clues have been altered, but not in meaning, to avoid any tricksy, sly googling, my precioussses - however, there's nothing in the rules to stop you googling synonyms...Oh yess there iss...oh no, there isn't.....Bah, trickssy ssolversss...