A question for those who are self-published

[DMatusik]

In fact, as a self-published author you're not very likely to even make it into the midlist -- or your books into the bookstores -- unless you are a self-promotional dynamo.

A fact which many of the people who sell their services to aspiring self-published authors conveniently leave out.

And it's not snobbery to warn people of the many pitfalls they may not know about, or to urge them to be wary in their dealings with a growing industry that makes its money not by selling books but by selling its services to inexperienced writers, often on the basis of a whole string of misrepresentations.

No it's not, but the idea that the only good comes from NYC publishers is - which is the prevalent idea on most message boards as well as the SFWA. That's what I was trying to head off. A fair number of people here have self-published and I think the conversation was starting to sound demeaning to their hard work. Maybe I misread.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Self-published authors need to get a thicker skin. Those of us who are traditionally published have to live with a lot of criticism, too, you know.

 

[DMatusik]

Self-published authors need to get a thicker skin. Those of us who are traditionally published have to live with a lot of criticism, too, you know.

Sorry - I guess I'm too sentimental and feel for them

not trying to be argumentative at all ..

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I do feel for them, especially the naïve ones who get their hopes raised and then crushed by people who have a vested interest in doing so.

But for some of them ... I might be a lot more sympathetic if they didn't feel they had to justify what they do by attacking what I do, and if they didn't have a habit of demanding sympathy. I am only talking about a small number of them, but these tend to be the most voluable, and in my opinion they are the ones who give a bad name to self-publishing. (Could somebody please tell some of them that announcing that no one is buying your book is NOT the way to get readers interested?)

I do know self-published writers who are fine writers. One of my two best friends self-published her novel, and at the moment I'm in the process of self-publishing some of my backlist. So I obviously have nothing against self-published writers as a group. But I have also met a lot of people who have chosen that route because they have more money than they have time for writing (which is to say, they don't make time for writing), and who think they can buy their way into a writing career. They drag down the general level of quality and then complain that no one is giving them enough respect.

I think these particular writers do far more to harm the reputation of their fellow self-published writers than any snobbery on the part of the rest of the publishing world.

 

[DMatusik]

They drag down the general level of quality and then complain that no one is giving them enough respect.

I think these particular writers do far more to harm the reputation of their fellow self-published writers than any snobbery on the part of the rest of the publishing world.

You know, I proposed a similar concept in this very forum a while back and was jumped on. Conclusion - there are people who can argue both side of this equation without ever coming to any agreeable resolution. There needs to be respect on both sides - taking one extreme and using it for the basis of an argument is never logical.

 

[McMurphy]

Snobbery

This site had a few members who would have made amazing resources for this discussion since they had self published novels that actually did some selling.

Unfortunately, they have since been run out by some of very same people that now have such nice things to say....

I would recommend, for those interested in self publication, to use the Chronicles Achieves as a good case study as to how people will typically treat you and your work.

Good luck to those attempting to chase their dreams.

 

[DMatusik]

Re: Defending the Fort of Snobbery

This site had a few members who would have made amazing resources for this discussion since they had self published novels that actually did some selling.

Unfortunately, they have since been run out by some of very same people that now have such nice things to say....

I would recommend, for those interested in self publication, to use the Chronicles Achieves as a good case study as to how people will typically treat you and your work.

Good luck to those attempting to chase their dreams.

I second that wish! It's hard enough to get the courage to follow your dreams, much less get anyone else to believe or accept them. It's a lonely road ...

I, at one point, suggest that self-publishing can lower the bar - and get slammed. I defend self publishers' efforst - and get slammed. I can see what you mean by being "run out."

 

[McMurphy]

Agreed - the author's experience is definitely valid here, but when you have "old guard" authors, they tend to view the publishing landscape as it was 10 or more years ago.

Their argument used to be "a self-published book isn't as high of quality as a traditional book." Advances in POD technology, desktop publishing software, etc. have nullified that argument.

Well said. The "old guards" remind me a bit of the music industry. They really, REALLY want to close eyes and live in the past. Not an exact comparison, I know.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: Snobbery

Unfortunately, they have since been run out by some of very same people that now have such nice things to say....

Some day, McMurphy, you'll have to tell me who some of these people were and how they were run out.

I do remember a number of people who came here only to talk about their own work, rarely, if ever, joined in any of the general books discussions, spent most of their time in the Aspiring Writers forums complaining about how poorly they were treated everywhere, and then left of their own accord, presumably because they found out that this wasn't really the best way to promote their books.

As I am sure that any fair-minded examination of the archives would prove.

 

[McMurphy]

Declining Chance to See Them as Punching Bags Once Again

Some day, McMurphy, you'll have to tell me who some of these people were and how they were run out.

I do remember a number of people who came here only to talk about their own work, rarely, if ever, joined in any of the general books discussions, spent most of their time in the Aspiring Writers forums complaining about how poorly they were treated everywhere, and then left of their own accord, presumably because they found out that this wasn't really the best way to promote their books.

As I am sure that any fair-minded examination of the archives would prove.

Well, if that doesn't prove my point, nothing will. Again, let the source posts speak for themselves and let the searcher decide. Can't be more fair than that, right?

This does bring up a good suggestion, however. I haven't checked, but their contact information may still be valid. Give them a try. Some of them were really well-intentioned people that could provide (the proverbial; readers of this post) you with a lot of insight.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

You're so funny, McMurphy! If I don't know so well the genial spirit in which you say these things, I might think you were using this thread to air a personal grudge.

 

[McMurphy]

My Self Posted Narcissism

You're so funny, McMurphy! If I don't know so well the genial spirit in which you say these things, I might think you were using this thread to air a personal grudge.

Be well assured that sometimes things aren't about you.

In fact, they are always about me.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Be well assured that sometimes things aren't about you.

Of course not. I was thinking of the "old guard" who presumably did the running out. You could hurt their feelings, if they didn't know you as well as I do.

 

[McMurphy]

Old Guards, New Tricks

Of course not. I was thinking of the "old guard" who presumably did the running out. You could hurt their feelings, if they didn't know you as well as I do.

I suppose recalling the whole "growing a thicker skin" defense would be too on the nose, right?

Besides, the "old guards" comment by me wasn't in the same post, and I was quoting.

 

[DMatusik]

I suppose recalling the whole "growing a thicker skin" defense would be too on the nose, right?

Besides, the "old guards" comment by me wasn't in the same post, and I was quoting.

And I think it may have been misunderstood, too. I meant long-time well established authors who have been cemented in the industry for so long that they don't have to face the same sets of decisions as someone looking to embark on a writing career. It was NOT name calling at all - merely reflecting a mindset of "well, this is the way I did it, so that's how you have to do it, too"

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Well, if they are thin-skinned, isn't it fortunate that none of the people you were referring to are here, McMurphy?

Anyway, I'm sure you'll agree that it was time we took this thread back on topic.

 

[McMurphy]

[Not to be taken seriously]

Well, if they are thin-skinned, isn't it fortunate that none of the people you were referring to are here, McMurphy?

Anyway, I'm sure you'll agree that it was time we took this thread back on topic.

Oh, but I am trying to run them out so then further berating of them would become acceptable.

Okay, now I have said my piece, we can go back to the topic at hand. *L*

 

[McMurphy]

And I think it may have been misunderstood, too. I meant long-time well established authors who have been cemented in the industry for so long that they don't have to face the same sets of decisions as someone looking to embark on a writing career. It was NOT name calling at all - merely reflecting a mindset of "well, this is the way I did it, so that's how you have to do it, too"

Heh, not to worry. I, presumably everyone else, knew what you meant.

I think many industries (this is a sweeping statement, I know and I apologize) are traditionally guarded by people that act upon and view markets in the way they have built their success. Understandable. It may not actually reflect trends in said industry, though.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I meant long-time well established authors who have been cemented in the industry for so long that they don't have to face the same sets of decisions as someone looking to embark on a writing career.

Actually, I know a lot of long-time writers, who seemed to be cemented into the industry who have had to make some of the very same decisions that you might think would be limited to newer writers.

Few of us have the kind of courage and enterprise that Storm Contstantine has shown in starting her own company to reprint her backlist -- and then making it such a success that she's been able to help other writers as well.

 

[DMatusik]

OK - but I'm not sure there's parity between those 2 groups with respect to the decision to self-publish. Things look mightily different when you're starting out on a career versus having a name a reputation built up around you. AC Crispin certainly isn't a newbie and I wouldn't think an author on that level would ever consider self-publishing other than back-catalog publication (read: no risk).