New GRRM Update on ADWD

[TK-421]

Not sure I follow you. Dany, Tyrion and Davos are POV characters in ADWD regardless.

Yes, I know that. What I meant was that, there is a POV in ADWD that has yet been unannounced and is a secret that GRRM is keeping close to his chest.

This is what sparked my comment from GRRM's blog post (undelined for emphasis):

It also means that I don't have to write that third Arianne chapter and the complementary chapter from the other POV... not yet, anyway... which moves DANCE two chapters closer to completion. (The move did mean I had to revise two chapters from another POV, which took place after the event in last week's draft, but now take place before said event, but fortunately that was just a matter of tweaking a couple of lines).

I was just wondering if thet "other POV" was one that was already well-known such as Dany, Tyrion, Davos or even Quentyn or was it this secret POV to be revealed only when the book is released.

Hope it's clearer now and sorry for any confusion.

 

[viZion]

My first inclination is to brand you as a heretic. My next thought is, "What the heck... the more, the merrier!"

I've always maintained that I'm an ASOIAF fan *not* a GRRM fan. I think the man is lazy and/or unfocused and all of the other criticisms laid out about his work ethic. I'm a big fan of the "Finish the Book, George!" blog. I'm pretty cynical towards GRRM and think he would have no problem milking the series for another book (not that I think the series will ever be finished anyway). But his work is lovely and that's why I read it. I don't have to like the author to like his work or discuss it with you guys.

 

[The Imp]

I've always maintained that I'm an ASOIAF fan *not* a GRRM fan. I think the man is lazy and/or unfocused and all of the other criticisms laid out about his work ethic. I'm a big fan of the "Finish the Book, George!" blog. I'm pretty cynical towards GRRM and think he would have no problem milking the series for another book (not that I think the series will ever be finished anyway). But his work is lovely and that's why I read it. I don't have to like the author to like his work or discuss it with you guys.

I think is is really unfair. I'd be the first to say that I wish he would just lock himself iun a room and write ASOIAF until the last page of the last book is done, but to question his work ethic or ability to focus on a project? I suppose it is his fault that people are so eager for the books to becompleted, but that speaks to how well they are written and the story that he has told so far. I think that his biggest problem is that he can't/won't write while on the road, and he chooses to be on the road a lot. Then again, this is clearly how he wants to be spending part of his life, so who is anyone to pass judgement.

Just as an FYI, this doesn't look like the pedigree of a lazy/unfocused writer

Novels

• Dying of the Light (1977) -- Hugo Award nominee, 1978 [28]; British Fantasy Award nominee, 1979 [29]
• Windhaven (1981, with Lisa Tuttle) -- Locus SF Award nominee, 1982 [30]
• Fevre Dream (1982) -- Locus SF and World Fantasy Award nominee, 1983 [31]
• The Armageddon Rag (1983) -- Locus SF and World Fantasy Award nominee, 1984 [32]

• A Song of Ice and Fire series:
  • A Game of Thrones (1996) -- Locus Fantasy Award Winner, Nebula and World Fantasy Award nominee, 1997 [33]
  • A Clash of Kings (1998) -- Nebula Award nominee, 1999; Locus Fantasy Award winner, 1999 [34]
  • A Storm of Swords (2000) -- Locus Fantasy Award winner, Hugo and Nebula Awards nominee, 2001 [35]
  • A Feast for Crows (2005) -- Hugo, Locus Fantasy, and British Fantasy Awards nominee, 2006 [36]
  • A Dance with Dragons (forthcoming)
  • The Winds of Winter (forthcoming)
  • A Dream of Spring (forthcoming)

• Hunter's Run (2007, expanded version of the novella "Shadow Twin", with Gardner Dozois and Daniel Abraham)

Martin announced on the 15th of February 2010 that he was '1,200' pages into finishing A Dance with Dragons.[37]
[edit] Selected novellas

• "A Song for Lya", originally in Analog, June 1974.
• Night of the Vampyres, originally in Amazing, 1975, re-published in The Best Military Science Fiction of the 20th Century
• "The Skin Trade" (1989) from the three-author collection Dark Visions.

The werewolf novella "The Skin Trade," has been optioned for film by Mike the Pike Productions. [38]

• "Tales of Dunk and Egg" series - set in the world of A Song of Ice and Fire
  • "The Hedge Knight" (1998)
  • "The Sworn Sword" (2003)
  • "The Mystery Knight" (2010)

• "Shadow Twin" (2004, with Gardner Dozois and Daniel Abraham)

[edit] Selected novelettes

• Sandkings, Martins most anthologized story to date and the only one of his to win both the Hugo and the Nebula awards.
• Meathouse Man, first published in 1976, in Orbit 18. (Originally intended for Harlan Ellison's notorious "The Last Dangerous Visions" anthology, GRRM has admitted that this is probably the darkest, most depressing story he has ever done[39] and that he still finds it painful to re-read nearly thirty years after its publication.)

[edit] Children's books

• The Ice Dragon (Originally printed in 1980 as a short story[40], illustrated and re-printed as a children's book in October, 2006)

[edit] Collections

• A Song for Lya (1976)
• Songs of Stars and Shadows (1977)
• Sandkings (1981)
• Songs the Dead Men Sing (1983)
• Nightflyers (1985)
• Tuf Voyaging (1987, collection of linked stories)
• Portraits of His Children (1987)
• Quartet (2001)
• GRRM: A RRetrospective (2003; reissued 2006 and 2007 as Dreamsongs)

[edit] Television

• The New Twilight Zone
  • The Last Defender of Camelot (1986) - writer (teleplay)
  • The Once and Future King (1986) - writer (teleplay), story editor
  • A Saucer of Loneliness (1986) - story editor
  • Lost and Found (1986) - writer (teleplay), from a printed short story by Phyllis Eisenstein
  • The World Next Door (1986) - story editor
  • The Toys of Caliban (1986) - writer (teleplay), from an unpublshed short story by Terry Matz
  • The Road Less Travelled (1986) - writer (story and teleplay), story editor

• Beauty and the Beast
  • Terrible Saviour (1987) - writer
  • Masques (1987) - writer
  • Shades of Grey (1988) - writer
  • Promises of Someday (1988) - writer
  • Fever (1988) - writer
  • Ozymandias (1988) - writer
  • Dead of Winter (1988) - writer
  • Brothers (1989) - writer
  • When the Blue Bird Sings' (1989) - writer (teleplay)
  • A Kingdom by the Sea (1989) - writer
  • What Rough Beast (1989) - writer (story)
  • Ceremony of Innocence (1989) - writer
  • Snow (1989) - writer
  • Beggar's Comet (1990) - writer
  • Invictus (1990) - writer

• Doorways (1993, unreleased pilot) - writer, producer, creator

• A Game of Thrones
  • Pilot (in pre-production) - writer (story, teleplay), producer, creator [41]

[edit] Editor

[edit] Wild Cards (also contributor to many volumes)

• Wild Cards I (1987)
• Wild Cards II: Aces High (1987)
• Wild Cards III: Jokers Wild (1987)
• Wild Cards IV: Aces Abroad (1988)
• Wild Cards V: Down & Dirty (1988)
• Wild Cards VI: Ace in the Hole (1990)
• Wild Cards VII: Dead Man's Hand (1990)
• Wild Cards VIII: One-Eyed Jacks (1991)
• Wild Cards IX: Jokertown Shuffle (1991)
• Wild Cards X: Double Solitaire (1992)
• Wild Cards XI: Dealer's Choice (1992)
• Wild Cards XII: Turn of the Cards (1993)

• Wild Cards: Card Sharks (1993) (Book I of a New Cycle trilogy)
• Wild Cards: Marked Cards (1994) (Book II of a New Cycle trilogy)
• Wild Cards: Black Trump (1995) (Book III of a New Cycle trilogy)

• Wild Cards: Deuces Down (2002)
• Wild Cards: Death Draws Five (2006)
• Wild Cards: Inside Straight (2008) (Book I of the Committee triad)
• Wild Cards: Busted Flush (2008) (Book II of the Committee triad)
• Wild Cards: Suicide Kings (2009)[42] (Book III of the Committee triad)
• Wild Cards: Fort Freak[43] (delivered) (A stand-alone novel)

[edit] Cross-genre anthologies edited (with Gardner Dozois)

• Warriors a massive, cross-genre anthology featuring stories about war and warriors (published on March 16, 2010)[44]
• Songs of the Dying Earth a tribute anthology to Jack Vance´s seminal Dying Earth series, initially published by Subterranean Press (2009)
• Songs of Love and Death a cross-genre anthology featuring stories of romance in fantasy and science-fiction settings (originally entitled Star Crossed Lovers[45]; November, 2010[46])
• Down These Strange Streets another cross-genre anthology, blending classic private eye detective stories with fantasy and science fiction (forthcoming)[47]

[edit] Awards

• "A Song for Lya" 1975 Hugo Award for Best Novella
• "Sandkings" 1980 Hugo Award for Best Novelette and Nebula Award for Best Novelette (the only one among Martin's stories to achieve that double)
• "The Way of Cross and Dragon" 1980 Hugo Award for Best Short Story
• "Portraits of His Children" 1986 Nebula Award for Best Novelette
• "The Pear-Shaped Man" 1988 Bram Stoker Award for Long Fiction
• "The Skin Trade" 1989 World Fantasy Award for Best Novella
• "Blood of the Dragon" 1997 Hugo Award for Best Novella
• "A Feast for Crows" 2006 Quill award and British Fantasy Award (nominated)

 

[Werthead]

I was just wondering if thet "other POV" was one that was already well-known such as Dany, Tyrion, Davos or even Quentyn or was it this secret POV to be revealed only when the book is released.

Hope it's clearer now and sorry for any confusion.

Oh, I see what you mean. No, the identity of the first reaction POV is unknown, since it's probably in TWoW and could be anyone from the rest of the series to date who's still alive, or even a new one. The second is also unknown, but presumably it has to be someone in Westeros close to Dorne, not in Slaver's Bay. Beyond that we don't know.

I've always maintained that I'm an ASOIAF fan *not* a GRRM fan. I think the man is lazy and/or unfocused and all of the other criticisms laid out about his work ethic. I'm a big fan of the "Finish the Book, George!" blog. I'm pretty cynical towards GRRM and think he would have no problem milking the series for another book (not that I think the series will ever be finished anyway). But his work is lovely and that's why I read it. I don't have to like the author to like his work or discuss it with you guys.

Interesting. Criticising someone's work ethic and calling them lazy when you have precisely zero idea what their work schedule is seems somewhat dubious to me, personally.

What is happening is that some people think they know what George's work ethic is because they are able to psychically divine it through his blog posts. And unfortunately this is not the case.

I have seen people - reasonable, intelligent people otherwise capable of rational, intelligent discourse - conclude that because GRRM has not mentioned ADWD on his blog for three months, but he has mentioned football, that he has thus not worked for one instant on ADWD and has spent three months watching football and doing absolutely nothing else. Which is obviously a total collapse in logic. You watch football in your leisure time, in the evenings, when you come home from work, when you are not doing your day-job, which is exactly how GRRM watches it. The same is true if he does not mention ADWD for long periods but mentions the HBO series, the miniatures or whatever else.

This leads me to the conclusion that some ASoIaF fans are in need of constant psychological reassurance from the author, that he must write, "Still working on ADWD," at the end of every single blog post just to let them feel at ease, even though I think that GRRM would balk at doing that because it would be stating the obvious to the extent that it would be treating his fans like they were morons. But obviously a lot of people would prefer that.

GRRM has not always done the best of PR jobs with regards to the series, something I think is indisputable. There have been times when he's decided to stay silent on an issue instead of explaining it, which has not been a wise move, most notably when the 2006/07 period rolled around that people were expecting ADWD to appear in (based on the note in the back of AFFC) and he didn't explain why the book hadn't appeared, other than a very rare (back then), "Still working on it." We didn't get an explanation for that until the extent of the book's restructuring became clear just a few months ago, which was obviously way too late in the day.

So yeah, GRRM is not good at PR, and could have probably stood to mention ADWD a little bit more regularly on his blog (say once every 2-3 months at a minimum, as he is now) throughout the entire process. But going from that to saying he's lazy and has a bad work ethic doesn't really follow.

My frustration is increased by personal knowledge about the amount of time GRRM pours into ADWD (sometimes fruitlessly, with weeks worth of material sometimes destroyed in rewrites), which perhaps the general reader does not have, but I still think the 'lazy' and 'bad work ethic' criticisms are unfounded. Hopefully if ADWD hits 900 pages in hardcover (not far off at the moment) and is excellent, that will alleviate some of these criticisms.

 

[Ursa major]

And a downside of continual reporting would be that readers may despair when they read of those weeks of eventually fruitless work. (No doubt some would then say that he GRRM had really no idea of what he was about and criticise him further.)

The truth is that writing fiction (even rubbish, let alone the very high quality stuff that GRRM produces) is not at all like turning the wheel on a sausage machine. If the answers to problems with, say, the plot are not immediately obvious, writing pages and pages of text 24/7 in the hope that inspiration may strike is no more effective than sitting on a sofa watching the Giants fail to get to the Super Bowl.

 

[Boaz]

I read The Edge of The World by Kevin J. Anderson today. In the back of the book, there is a Q&A section where Anderson discusses his sci-fi series The Saga of Seven Suns. Anderson states...

I planned Seven Suns from start to finish as seven voumes, with a clear story arc that genuinely ended. I wanted to do something practically unheard of in the genre: write a big epic series where I reliably turned in every volume on time, year after yea, and finished the story where it ended, rather than dragging it on and on. And I'm very pleased with the result.

I applaud Mr. Anderson for having a beginning and a definite ending to his story and I commend him highly for meeting his deadlines. In this new series of his, Terra Incognita, the first book was published in 2009, the second this year, and the third and final book is scheduled for next year. I'd like all authors to strive to meet these standards... the only problem is that The Edge Of The World did not meet my standards for big, for epic, for fun, for interesting characters, for working timelines, for plausible socio-econo-religio-political models, for asking me to use my own brain power, nor for even mildly interesting plots. What The Edge Of The World did succeed at was the premise; the desire for exploration of unmapped regions... it just did not deliver. Now, if I was thirteen again... maybe.

If this is what sci-fi and fantasy has to offer me by meeting deadlines, then I'll stick to re-reading A Song of Ice and Fire and The Lord of the Rings and I'll wait five more years for ADWD.

 

[viZion]

I'm really not going to change my personal opinion of GRRM's work ethic. I don't ever check his blog and don't require a constant update on ADWD. My life continues on unhindered by the progress of ADWD. I do believe that ADWD will be the last book we see and I still wouldn't be surprised if GRRM announces an eighth book.

Here's really how I view it (fair or not, I honestly could care less): If I produced at my job like GRRM produces at his, I'd be fired. I could give a crap about his "free" time. No one can work on anything 24/7. I do think he's irreponsible with his "working" time though. Could I be wrong? Yeah, but it's also not an unreasonable assertion. If he can't write on the road then maybe he should consider not going on the road to a bunch of stupid conventions. I think people would be plenty understanding if he didn't show up to sign their copies of Wildcards XIVXMIICLXXII if they knew he had other work committments (and everyone knows that what most people are interested in is ASOIAF..this is actually the main point brought up by "Finish the Book, George"). I mean, that's what I would do if I took my own job seriously (and I do).

Imp, seriously, what was the point of quoting his entire bibliography? Besides, I read Dreamsongs Volume II and kept noticing how GRRM's pattern of tardiness and being unable to focus on one task has been a part of his entire career. Why does anyone even care if I don't like him? I have my opinions of him and you and Wert and everyone else has theirs. If we want to get into flame wars about it we can head over to Westeros. I come here because I'd rather just stick to talking about the series itself.

 

[TPA]

but to question his work ethic or ability to focus on a project?

...well, as far as ethics are concerned, he agreed to a deadline then completely disregarded it.

 

[Ursa major]

The only problem with that comparison is that GRRM is involved in a creative process whose output is expected to be excellent. As Boaz has already pointed out, there is no point in churning out a book a year if it doesn't meet my expectations of what should be found inside.

(I've worked to deadlines and the quality suffers if the deadline is too short. And unlike GRRM, we weren't expected to continually come up with the unexpected.)

If GRRM suddenly thought "I'm getting sick of all this, let's get it out of the way as quickly as possible by including the major plot points and making sure it fits the synopsis in my head, but the prose and sub-plots can go hang!" who would be happy with the result? I wouldn't be. All those folk who are desperate to see the books wouldn't be. GRRM wouldn't be. No-one (as opposed to No One) would be.

If the price of brilliant ASoIaF books is the absence of the final volume, so be it.

If the price for the final volume is that the books are little better than average, I simply don't want to pay it.

 

[viZion]

I won't cry if the series is never completed. Even though Wert lumped me in with all the rest of the people who go crazy over GRRM's football posts, I'm really not emotionally involved at all with the completion of the series or even ADWD. Like I said, my life moves on. However, I admit that I did make one change because of GRRM (and Robert Jordan to a lesser extent). I've simply resolved to never start another unfinished series.

And, hell, I even broke that rule when I started Steven Erikson's series. But I ended up hating it after the first three books so it didn't matter anyway.

 

[No One]

Viz - you don't think that the "Finish the Book, George" thing is just a tad overboard, obsessive, and outright hateful?

I could understand someone being a fan of the books but not the man (as you say, everyone's different and I'm not going to play judge), but to be a fan of the books and to so evidently loathe the man just doesn't make sense to me. Not that I read a great deal of it (I stumbled on it a while back as i'm sure most of us have), but to put so much time and effort into being so relentlessly spiteful is low-beyond-low and doesn't say much for the writer/s of the site who have nothing better to do. The whole thing seems like a glaring oxymoron to me.

Anyway, nuff said. I have to hit the sack. 'Night all.

 

[southron sword]

Why does anyone even care if I don't like him? I have my opinions of him and you and Wert and everyone else has theirs. If we want to get into flame wars about it we can head over to Westeros. I come here because I'd rather just stick to talking about the series itself.

If you dont care what other people think of your opinions then why write this? Obviously you do.
I do agree that we should stick to the series itself.

P.S. It's just a book, and he is just a man.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

Imp, enough already, please finish the f&@%ing series before everyone in here hangs themselves with their keyboard cords!

 

[viZion]

Viz - you don't think that the "Finish the Book, George" thing is just a tad overboard, obsessive, and outright hateful

A lot of their older posts are funny. A lot of the later stuff I didn't even bother to read because it's too tl;dr. I'm of the opinion that blog writers need to learn to be concise. It's the internet and when I'm on the internet my attention span is

 

[Ursa major]

...but to be a fan of the books and to so evidently loathe the man just doesn't make sense to me.

We do it in other arts: plenty of folk love Wagner's music**, including a fair few (well, not few at all; probably most of them who know anything about him) who loathe the man***. (And he is, sadly, not alone among the great artists in being loathsome.)

(Oh, and I'd better say that I can't see how GRRM is at all loathsome.)



** - For very good reasons.

*** - For very (and for many, not just the obvious) good reasons.

 

[Werthead]

...well, as far as ethics are concerned, he agreed to a deadline then completely disregarded it.

When? And I mean a deadline, set in stone, immovable, a guarantee signed in blood, not some, "Well, hopefully, if everything goes okay, it might be possible to hit this date," comment.

Here's really how I view it (fair or not, I honestly could care less): If I produced at my job like GRRM produces at his, I'd be fired.

This is the worst analogy possible, and one people keep bringing up time and again despite its utter irrelevance. Unless you are independently financially self-sufficient outside of your job, and unless you work as a freelancer producing a complete product which you do not receive any money for at all until it is completed no matter how long it takes, there is no comparison at all.

I do think he's irreponsible with his "working" time though. Could I be wrong? Yeah, but it's also not an unreasonable assertion.

Of course it is. Unless you've been to his house and seen how he uses his working time, you are again going off nothing but his blog posts and putting 2 and 2 together to make 17.

If it was a simple matter of bashing out 400,000 words no matter what, then ADWD would have been finished, at the very latest, two years ago, easily. Since that did not happen, other issues in the narrative, the structure of the books and other issues (timelines, character arcs and so on) have to be causing issues resulting in the huge swathes of rewrites we are seeing. Talking about those things can be fascinating (but then I'm the sort of person who finds the books about Tolkien writing LotR fascinating, other people don't really care), as they are the real reason ADWD is taking so long, not some simplistic association with convention-going and miniature-painting.

I think people would be plenty understanding if he didn't show up to sign their copies of Wildcards XIVXMIICLXXII if they knew he had other work committments (and everyone knows that what most people are interested in is ASOIAF..this is actually the main point brought up by "Finish the Book, George").

This is something else amusing. For whatever reason, the 'detractors' particularly seem to loathe Wild Cards and GRRM working on the new books, despite the fact that it came a long time before ASoIaF, it was very successful in its own right and in fact its high sales allowed GRRM to get a good deal when he sold ASoIaF to Bantam, and is still popular (otherwise Tor wouldn't be publishing the new books and reprinting the old ones). The position seems to be that since ASoIaF is now bigger, GRRM should never mention Wild Cards again or work on it at all. The basis for this seems to be respecting the apparent will of the majority, the majority being ASoIaF fans, even though I don't remember them taking a vote on it.

However, they went ape when GRRM (admittedly massively prematurely) banned book spoiler discussions on his blog for the benefit of perspective fans of the TV series because it was a slap in the face to his long-standing book fans who'd been around for years, despite the fact that GRRM is, consistently with their position, respecting the same democratic principle. Based even on typical HBO ratings, it is likely that more people will watch the first episode of the TV series than have ever read the books worldwide. Surely that counts for more? Or is the argument that GRRM should respect his fans and readers who came first, in which case he can talk about Wild Cards as much as he wants?

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

We do it in other arts: plenty of folk love Wagner's music**, including a fair few (well, not few at all; probably most of them who know anything about him) who loathe the man***. (And he is, sadly, not alone among the great artists in being loathsome.)

(Oh, and I'd better say that I can't see how GRRM is at all loathsome.)

I can think of a few people in their professions that are great at their jobs but are total pricks in their personal lives IMO.

Brett Favre - my favorite football player of all time, but is annoying the heck out of me with his indecision and dragging this thing out like no other hall of fame bound retiring athlete.

Tiger Woods - Many may say the greatest golfer of all time, but a great person???

Michael Jordan - same scenario.

A coworker - great system administrator in his own right, but I would never invite him over for dinner.

My point is everyone has their opinions and have their rights to voice them. However, when you have a global forum there are some who exercise their freedom of speech and some who are just appauled by that right ( especially on an anonymous forum)

There are some in hear whom i love to listen to their theories on ASOIAF, but turned completely off (and vice versa) when delving into their personal lives in the "What are we watching" thread. (no shot at you No One)

I have posted my frustration of the time it has taken, but will not get in a debate out of respect for those who have been waiting alot longer than me since I've only been waiting about a year since finishing AFFC.

In a sense, he's brilliant in making everyone build up their anticipation until it bursts, but some people are loosing their heads with the wait.

Stephen King took a long time to finish the Dark Tower series. Once the fans pressured him into finishing, do you think it was of great quality as it could have been ( even though I was somewhat fine with the ending ) I too finished the whole series last year, so no wait in between. Although, I'm not sure if the anticipation matches that of GRRM.

 

[No One]

Ursa & LordSnow - agreed, there are pleny of people whose work I might admire while having little or no respect for the person behind it (Premiership footballers make for good examples as does perhaps the odd Michael Bay film, which I might enjoy, even if I still think the man is, well, let's not go there. I think we all like the odd Michael Jackson song too, but would hardly praise the man.

My point was specifically aimed at GRRM, who is otherwise not involved in any such scandals and seems a perfectly decent man. With regards to that site, even Joseph Fritzl probably hasn't been on the receiving end of so much invective. Like I say, it just reeks of a misguided personal vendetta.

 

[viZion]

This is the worst analogy possible, and one people keep bringing up time and again despite its utter irrelevance. Unless you are independently financially self-sufficient outside of your job, and unless you work as a freelancer producing a complete product which you do not receive any money for at all until it is completed no matter how long it takes, there is no comparison at all.

Nope. Still don't agree. I think the reason he's able to lead the jetsetting lifestyle he lives is because of ASOIAF. It's his biggest success and it's probably still paying quite a few bills even though he hasn't produced anything in years. His work ethic stinks. Maybe he's a nice guy but that doesn't mean everything about him is perfect. You won't change my mind on this one.

Of course it is. Unless you've been to his house and seen how he uses his working time, you are again going off nothing but his blog posts and putting 2 and 2 together to make 17.

Apparently, you find it hard to believe that I don't visit his blog. I don't know what he posts on his blog because I do not read it. Ever. I'm just not interested. My opinion is that his work ethic sucks. He probably could have used a few years in the military. But I just shrug my shoulders and move on with my life. I don't spend any time at all during my day wondering what GRRM is up to.

This is something else amusing. For whatever reason, the 'detractors' particularly seem to loathe Wild Cards

I don't really care about Wildcards or what he does or doesn't do with it. I brought it up because it's funny to me. What little I've read of it is not very good. But I'm sure you disagree. Honestly, is there any of his work that you dislike or think is weak? Anyway, my point was that the fans wouldn't care if he wasn't at some convention to sign their copies of Dying of the Light (happy now?) if they knew he had to stay home to get some work done. Note I'm not even saying what I think he should be working on.

However, they went ape when GRRM (admittedly massively prematurely) banned book spoiler discussions on his blog for the benefit of perspective fans of the TV series because it was a slap in the face to his long-standing book fans who'd been around for years, despite the fact that GRRM is, consistently with their position, respecting the same democratic principle. Based even on typical HBO ratings, it is likely that more people will watch the first episode of the TV series than have ever read the books worldwide. Surely that counts for more? Or is the argument that GRRM should respect his fans and readers who came first, in which case he can talk about Wild Cards as much as he wants?

Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about here. Because I don't read his blog or follow his life. So I hope you're not including me in your "they". I still think his work ethic sucks; I still think he's irresponsible and I still think it's been a pattern throughout his career. He has a history of missing deadlines. Maybe he's an awesome guy to hang out with if I got to know him. That still wouldn't change my opinion of his work habits. I don't feel like I have to be all or nothing in my opinions of people. I love my family members but recognize that they have faults, too.

 

[Clansman]

Wow. You go away for a few days, and the place explodes!

I'm in with Wert, Boaz and Imp on this. The great works of art took a long time. How do you think Michelangelo reacted when the Pope got a little peeved about the time he took on the Sistine Chapel? Writing the book is not the same as installing steering wheels on an assembly line, providing legal services, or building a house. A builder has a plan from which to build, a lawyer has procedures and rules to follow, and the person installing steering wheels has training and is doing the same job over and over and over. The artist (whether writer, musician, painter, sculptor, etc.) does not get the benefit of having that kind of structure. Art by its very nature is free of all kinds of structure.

Quota, when it comes to art and the creative process, is completely and utterly irrelevant. Call the man lazy if you want, no one is in a position to judge him, which makes any such judgments of little value. Also, GRRM has cost himself a great deal by taking so long with this book, and he is obviously painfully aware of the fact. And by the way, he can't have been watching football for the last five months, as the football season only goes from September to the end of January, and it is only on Sundays and Monday nights, plus American Thanksgiving in late November (a Thursday). Hardly a shocking amount of time. Thank God that he is not as avid a baseball fan (April to November, thousands of games, and post-season play) as he is of football.

ASoIaF as a series, and ADWD as a book, are obviously difficult to write, just as the Sistine Chapel was difficult to paint. You cannot put a deadline on creativity, as much as you might like to, and if the author has lost his muse, or is struggling with it, but produces anyway, what you get is crap. I don't want crap from GRRM, because what has gone before is so good. I would rather that he drop dead this instant than sell out to those who demand a book at the cost of his producing a great piece of art. At least what he had already written would stand as having been very well done. (No, I am not one of those who fears his death before the series is finished).

Anyway, any updates on ADWD? That's what this thread is about, isn't it?