Casting news from the TV series

[the smiling weirwood]

Meh, everyone in the world of Westeros has different accents, so I don't see that being a problem.

I agree about Dany, but mostly because she wasn't as beautiful as I thought she should be. I was expecting someone with a rather otherworldly look. I know Liv Tylers and Cate Blanchetts don't fall out of the sky, but really. She looks like a regular soap actress. I know that's a horrible criticism to make, especially since we haven't even seen her act yet, but Dany's particular appearance and heritage is such a huge part of her character.

Ack, I also saw Sansa. She looks a lot older and more, um, experienced than I thought they would get for Sansa. Oh well.

 

[Culhwch]

I agree about Dany, but mostly because she wasn't as beautiful as I thought she should be. I was expecting someone with a rather otherworldly look.

Yeah, I definitely imagine her with an ethereal quality, which is definitely lacking here.

 

[Werthead]

Amusing story about how Maisie Williams, who plays Arya, had decided to do all of her action in the series left-handed (as Arya in the books is left-handed) despite the fact that she is right-handed. She did this off her own back and didn't tell anyone that she was honouring the books like that. Cool.

I also noticed in one of those "making of the series" videos that the actress has an english accent. How will that mesh with Sean Bean's accent or Peter Dinklage's american accent remains to be seen.

Most of the Westerosi in the series will have variants of an English accent, with Dinklage and Coster-Waldau using English accents (to match Lena Headey and Charles Dance's), so that's not a problem.

 

[Ursa major]

Dany is what passes for her world's version of human. She is neither an elf nor a mystical being. She is a young girl whose father happened to be a king, and whose brother is an arrogant fool. Why should she be in any way ethereal? Should Viserys look ethereal. (And I believe this even if something in the book disagrees with it. ) Essos and Westeros are not districts in Fairy-Tale Land.


And thank goodness the actress doesn't look like Liv Tyler: not the right sort of look at all. The Dany we see in AGOT is meant to grow into the Dany who can lead armies; she shouldn't look as if some beneficent minor deity has wanted to lend a helping hand from the start.


(As for Cate Blanchette.... * shakes head * )

 

[Culhwch]

Dany is what passes for her world's version of human. She is neither an elf nor a mystical being. She is a young girl whose father happened to be a king, and whose brother is an arrogant fool. Why should she be in any way ethereal? Should Viserys look ethereal. (And I believe this even if something in the book disagrees with it. ) Essos and Westeros are not districts in Fairy-Tale Land.

I'm not talking on the scale of Titania and Galadriel, Urse. But in the world of Westeros, only the Targaryens have silver hair and violet eyes - does that not set them apart from the masses? My argument is that TV Dany looks like an actress in a bad wig. TV Eddard looks like Eddard. TV Robert looks like Robert. TV Tyrion looks like Tyrion.

This is the Dany I see. And, yes, I know she doesn't dress like that for long in the books, but you get the idea. Don't get me wrong, this is a small gripe, and I've already voiced that I hope more exposure equals more tolerance.

By the way - Liv Tyler just about ruined LotR for me. Blergh. But don't be up in here bad-mouthing Our Cate.

 

[Eulalia]

Yeah, I agree with Culhwch about the wig on "Dany". Let's hope she can act all will be well.

I was wasting time watching America's Next Top Model. (the shame)
There was a model that I thought looked like Dany would look like.
www.poptower.com/erin-wagner-atm-top-model-picture-13225.htm

Shows what can be done with copious amounts of bleach, rather than using a wig. Don't worry, she's 19. Probably can't act and would have spoiled the show.

 

[Ursa major]

Silver hair is bound to look odd and somewhat unreal, Cul: it is. Bleached hair isn't silver. (I can't follow that link, Eulalia - I'm getting Page not found - so can't comment on Ms Wagner's apprearance or that of her hair.)

I'll admit that Cate Blanchette isn't really my cup of tea looks-wise (nor is Liv Tyler, for that matter), but given that there are probably people out there who think Sarah Jessica Parker is good-looking, it's obviously not something devoid of subjective opinion. However, Cate did look the part in LOTR in that her appearance suggested great age without her looking that old, which is quite a trick. (Something entirely inappropriate for Dany, I would argue, hence my head-shaking.)

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

I wouldnt mind seeing Scarlett Johansson as Dany. However, she probably would have had to do something about those "ahem" tig ole bitties though......

 

[Eulalia]

I'm sorry Ursa. Sigh. I'm terrible with such things. If you like, google Erin Wagner ATM, and there is a good before (brunette) and after (blonde). Yes, they would need something to make it more silver, (which they weren't trying for) to be more perfect, but still...better than the wig and unbleached eyebrows.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Firstly, in the books it literally describes the Targaryens as having "inhuman" beauty. There obviously is something about them that stands out, beyond differences of ethnicity or coloring.

Secondly, save your head-wringing you obnoxious bear. I never suggested Liv Tyler or Cate Blanchett for the role, that would be entirely unsuitable. I was referencing them for their unusual and striking, but still beautiful, looks.

 

[Ursa major]

...something about which I cannot really agree (apart from the bit about Liv Tyler looking somewhat unusual).

By the way, who in particular describes them as having inhuman beauty? (Not that anyone in the books is really human; or are they?) The books themselves don't say anything, only the POV characters and those whose words and writings they happen to mention.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

From the Westeros ASoIaF concordance, taken from the index of the Great Houses in the back.

"The Targaryens have a striking (or, as some say, inhuman) beauty: lilac, indigo, or violet eyes and silver-gold or platinum hair (I: 692)"


This is from George R.R. Martin's own description of notable Targaryens of the past to the artist Amok, concerning Daemon Blackfyre.

"Targaryen on both side, Daemon had all the hallmarks of his house; the silver-gold hair, the deep purple eyes, fine features of almost inhuman beauty."

 

[Eulalia]

I think inhuman beauty is a bit of a stretch outside of our imaginations, indeed, and I have never really seen anyone with lilac eyes.

But these days, with camera tricks, make up, computers, contacts, and touch ups, I wonder what could be done. However,perhaps high definition can spoil things. One reason I like America's Next Top Model (hangs head in shame) is I have done some portrait painting. I find it really interesting how a quarter inch angle difference, a slight change of expression, make up, lighting and a great photographer can create someone who you would think of as plain into someone who takes a stunning photo.

Is it necessary though? If someone is a very good actor, and supported by good actors reacting to them, don't you believe (within limits)? I remember seeing a 40 something year old ballerina do a very lovely Juliette. Distance from the stage helped. But she moved and mimed perfectly and had been doing it for many years!

You may hate this but I thought Cersei looked like a much meaner looking Scarlett J.

 

[Ursa major]

From the Westeros ASoIaF concordance, taken from the index of the Great Houses in the back.

"The Targaryens have a striking (or, as some say, inhuman) beauty: lilac, indigo, or violet eyes and silver-gold or platinum hair (I: 692)"

Thanks for supplying these quotes. (Though neither is from the books as such, I'm grateful you found them, particularly the second one concerning the artist, Amok, which I would never have found by myself. )


I think the operative phrase in the first quote is as some say, which makes the comment not only subjective but (it's implied) disputed.

This is from George R.R. Martin's own description of notable Targaryens of the past to the artist Amok, concerning Daemon Blackfyre.

"Targaryen on both side, Daemon had all the hallmarks of his house; the silver-gold hair, the deep purple eyes, fine features of almost inhuman beauty."

I think you may be on slightly firmer ground here, although I would point out that in the books Dany is young and those features may well be hidden under some puppy fat. (How old one has to be before the fine features win out, I couldn't say. )

By the way, here's a link to that artist's depiction of Dany: Amok's site :: Gallery :: George R.R. Martin.

(As an aside, there's a violinist playing in my local orchestra, the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, who has hair of a similar colour to that in the picture. It may be natural or it may be chemically advanced; it isn't the sort of thing one would ask a stranger.)

I think inhuman beauty is a bit of a stretch outside of our imaginations, indeed, and I have never really seen anyone with lilac eyes.

But these days, with camera tricks, make up, computers, contacts, and touch ups, I wonder what could be done. However,perhaps high definition can spoil things. One reason I like America's Next Top Model (hangs head in shame) is I have done some portrait painting. I find it really interesting how a quarter inch angle difference, a slight change of expression, make up, lighting and a great photographer can create someone who you would think of as plain into someone who takes a stunning photo.

Is it necessary though? If someone is a very good actor, and supported by good actors reacting to them, don't you believe (within limits)? I remember seeing a 40 something year old ballerina do a very lovely Juliette. Distance from the stage helped. But she moved and mimed perfectly and had been doing it for many years!

You may hate this but I thought Cersei looked like a much meaner looking Scarlett J.

You make a very valid point: stills are, at the moment (give or take the advent of CGI), easier to manipulate, either before or after the camera is involved. I'd go further to say that the beauty (attractiveness) of some people is more in their movement and expressions than their immobile face, which is why some people of not much better than average looks can look really good on the screen.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I think you misunderstood the source of that first quote, it is in the books. In the back of the books there's an index of the Great Houses, detailing the major players but also other relatives who may or may not actually appear and giving family trees. Anyway, there's a description under each major house, and that quote comes from the description of House Targaryen. That number there at the end is the page number of the hardcover, in the US paperback it appears on page 832.

It's sort of silly to say we shouldn't take any subjectivity into it, since anything beautiful or striking will always be subjective. Also, if George didn't want you to get the impression there's something otherworldly or inhuman about the looks of the Targaryens, he wouldn't have even used that phrase.

I don't think your statement about the puppy fat or timing of fine features makes much sense. There's no need to add in additional information to refute the author's description. Nowhere does it say Daenerys is not beautiful or fine featured, so it makes no sense to talk about puppy fat disguising her looks.

 

[Ursa major]

You're right. I was sure I'd checked that paragraph. (I must have been in too great a hurry. )

It still has that "some say" phrase, though, which (as I said) implies that some don't say.

 

[Culhwch]

And also implies that some do say.

I think you should give up, SW - a rampaging pack of Others aren't going to change Urse's mind on this one, I'm afraid.

 

[Ursa major]

Well spotted, Cul (about the Others, that is ).

Some may say politicians are worth every penny (given their salaries are not of the size of investment bankers'; some have said (in relation to US Senators in the last century) that they are the best that money can buy....


What did you think of Amok's version of Dany, by the way? Was that more what you were looking for?

 

[Culhwch]

Indeed, Amok has always nailed most of the characters.

 

[Eulalia]

I like Amok's picture of Dany. However, I think it is hard to make silver enough hair without it reading as grey.

I saw her as being a little Scandinavian looking, like a petite version of Elin Nordegren, with silvery hair. Since the book is a fantasy, why not purple eyes also?