Most Disturbing Moment/Event (SPOiLERS!!!)

[No One]

A few disparate points...

First, I'd say Arya is the truest Stark because of the "wolf-blood" as Ned put it. It may not make her fit to be a great leader or ruler - far from it more likely - but as a child of Winterfell and the harsh North it seems fitting.

As to the "Ice and Fire" of the title, it seems that GRRM is playing it out in many different ways. For me though, there's no doubt that the principle aspects of it are represented by the Others and the Dragons.

Re: the three-eyed crow. I've wondered how Bran's consciousness might manifest within the mind of Hodor while warging with him. Could it be that Bran appears also as a three-eyed crow in Hodor's mind's eye? Or does the three-eyed crow simply represent Bran's latent abilities and the part of his subconscious that understands more than he is consciously aware of?

 

[Mesanna]

Re: the three-eyed crow. I've wondered how Bran's consciousness might manifest within the mind of Hodor while warging with him. Could it be that Bran appears also as a three-eyed crow in Hodor's mind's eye? Or does the three-eyed crow simply represent Bran's latent abilities and the part of his subconscious that understands more than he is consciously aware of?

Yeah, maybe the three-eyed crow represents nothing more than Bran's young mind trying to frame a concept he doesn't fully understand. New-agey types talk about a third eye meaning higher consciousness, and maybe the crow means nothing more than a crippled boy's desire to fly. Somehow, though, this seems too pedestrian an explanation for GRRM!

PS I'm totally on board with the R+L=J. I didn't pick up on it first time I read the books, but on second reading it seems so obvious! Rhaegar, for being a dead man, is such an important character. He's like the man behind the curtain throughout the books. We know relatively little about him, yet he's shaped and steered so much of the story. I wish we could get a flashback in time and have a Rhaegar POV. That would be fascinating!

 

[The Imp]

Yeah, maybe the three-eyed crow represents nothing more than Bran's young mind trying to frame a concept he doesn't fully understand. New-agey types talk about a third eye meaning higher consciousness, and maybe the crow means nothing more than a crippled boy's desire to fly. Somehow, though, this seems too pedestrian an explanation for GRRM!

PS I'm totally on board with the R+L=J. I didn't pick up on it first time I read the books, but on second reading it seems so obvious! Rhaegar, for being a dead man, is such an important character. He's like the man behind the curtain throughout the books. We know relatively little about him, yet he's shaped and steered so much of the story. I wish we could get a flashback in time and have a Rhaegar POV. That would be fascinating!

I'm still extremely interested in whether or no Euron greyjoy's nickname is coinceidence or perhaps has greater meaning. Could he be the 3 eyed crow?

 

[hadd]

I'm still extremely interested in whether or no Euron greyjoy's nickname is coinceidence or perhaps has greater meaning. Could he be the 3 eyed crow?

His travels might have opened up that "6th sense" ...With his lips being purple'ish now and all.

Interesting thought. Although i doubt he's the 3 eyed crow Bran needs to find. He's too much of a villain to be of any use to our sweet little Brandon

 

[HoopyFrood]

Are you sure you didn't warm up to Jaime just because the more Bran chapters we had to read the more we kind of wished Jaime had succeeded?

Haha. Gotta agree with this. I find Bran distinctly wet, was bored of his chapters at first, got a little more interested, then they fell flat for me again. But that's just me.

Also, Jaime's awesome. It's interesting that we first learn first of his him through his reputation, the stories about him, the incest (gotta say that was somewhat disturbing when I first heard about it...with your twin) and see him fling a small child from a tower -- then we finally get onto his own chapters. And once they came along, I couldn't help liking him.

Disturbing moments...well, many of those already mentioned. Gregor and his men, wonderful people that they are. I've just finished Storm of Swords and the fate of both Gregor and Sandor seem ambiguous...but I hope both live so they can finally face each other again and Sandor can kill that mountain.

The image of Grey Wind's head being attached to Robb's body. Even now, at the end of the book, with more reiterations of it having happened, I am refusing to believe that it did. It's just downright horrible.

As No One knows, the most disturbing moment for me was Renly's death. NOOOOOOO. So unexpected and brutal. And I do so love Renly and his latent (or maybe not so, with Loras and a rainbow guard and all that) gayness. He was about the only happy character in the whole damn books, too. Poor Renly.

 

[No One]

Well well well, look who's deigned to join us...

*Rolls out the red carpet; gathers a cheering (and a little bit of jeering) fanfare, trumpeteers, tickertape, etc*

Welcome to a new corner of the Chrons HoopyFrood! But pfft, Renly!? He had it coming.

You do realise, however, that you're risking a few spoilers from the as-yet-unread-by-you A Feast For Crows. So do be careful.

 

[HoopyFrood]

*Gives a royal wave* I always arrive fashionably late.

*Smacks No* Don't talk of the dead like that! Especially dear Renly...

Oh, my, I'm gonna get a name for myself as a Renly Lover. Ah, well!

And yes, I'm well aware of that. I'm avoiding threads where I don't recognise things in their titles, and if I see hints of anything I don't know, I tend to skip over to avoid the detail. So I think I'm swerving the worst of it.

 

[Mesanna]

Hey, another Renly fan! I really liked Renly too and wish we'd seen more of him (and I don't just mean the parts Loras saw, snigger snigger). I love the part where he mocks Joff for letting an 10-year old take his sword from him, and the whole scene with Stannis and the peach.

But, on topic, what's so shocking about Renly's death is the way Stannis decides his brother's death was necessary, how he ignores the manner of the death and decides that he wasn't culpable. Man, Stannis is cold.

 

[Conor]

I was incredibly upset after reading the "Red Wedding" then in the same night thinking the Hound killed Araya when she tried to get into the castle to get to her mother, Martin is a master of a cliffhanger ending a chapter where one does not know for sure what happened most recently with Brienne....
I was upset during the day the next day at work...thinking about the Red Wedding and possibly Araya getting it too.

 

[Conor]

I also found it very disturbing how Viscerys was killed by Drago and his men....melting gold then pouring it on his head...ugh.
Should not have had all that wine Viscerys!

 

[The Imp]

I also found it very disturbing how Viscerys was killed by Drago and his men....melting gold then pouring it on his head...ugh.
Should not have had all that wine Viscerys!

I guess the idea of it was disturbing, it took a while for him to die and it was pretty horrible, but he was in that moment the poster boy for the idea of karma

 

[Conor]

I guess the idea of it was disturbing, it took a while for him to die and it was pretty horrible, but he was in that moment the poster boy for the idea of karma

Agreed, I was going to say he deserved it but the horror the horror..

 

[Mesanna]

Maybe I'm hard-hearted, but all I could think when Viserys got "crowned", was Ha! He deserved that. (And the same with Joff.)

Maybe we should have a thread for the Most Satisfying Moment in the series, because Vis and Joff losing their lives was definitely satisfying to me!

 

[TK-421]

Ahh, Viserys, Joffrey and Theon. Three clueless little boys playing with swords.

 

[Weasel Soup]

Renly's death also pretty much defines Brienne's character. I know, I know, most people do not like Brienne, but I am a fan. Also, have to tip my hat to Renly for his mockery in court of Joff after Arya relieved him of his sword.

And Viscery's crowning was one of the more satisfying moments in the series. I can think of 2 other characters whose (hopefully) eventual demise will be just as satisfying.

For some reason I find Lady's death to still be top 3 shocking moments.

 

[Mesanna]

Ah, I'd forgotten about Theon. Another twat. Actually, I'd rather see him humiliated than slain, because I think that would be harder for him to bear. Maybe when the war's won, Dany could sentence Theon to be Strong Belwas's maid. That would work for me!

 

[the smiling weirwood]

You guys are absolutely merciless. I think Theon got what he deserved and then some. After seeing what Bolton did to him, I could only pity him.

I thought Lady's death was particularly striking. I think it was the very first real shock I had while reading the book. It was a signal, I suppose, that series wouldn't be like anything else I had read.

 

[southron sword]

I thought Lady's death was particularly striking. I think it was the very first real shock I had while reading the book. It was a signal, I suppose, that series wouldn't be like anything else I had read.

And Jaime getting frisky with twin sister Cersei which led to Bran being thrown out a window is common place in the stories you read????

 

[HoopyFrood]

I thought Lady's death was particularly striking. I think it was the very first real shock I had while reading the book. It was a signal, I suppose, that series wouldn't be like anything else I had read.

I was thinking about this last night and came to the exact same conclusion. Lady's death was such a shock and set up what this series was going to be like. I didn't believe that she would really be killed. I think it took until book three to start truly believing things, when they seemed about to happen, really would. I still had the film thing going on, where a good guy swoops in at the at the last moment and stops it. Or anything swoops in and stops it. We're used to last minute savings. There are little, if any, in GRRM.

 

[Weasel Soup]

I think the death of Lady was shocking because it was Stark killing one of their own at the behest of a Lannister. Granted it's not like Eddard lopped off Rickon's head, but the metaphor of Eddard cutting the head off a wolf seems a bit....ermmm.