The Winds of Winter publishing date guesses?

[althea]

I haven't watched the TV series of ASOIAF.I started to watch it at the beginning, but found it so unlike my mental images of the characters
and the plot is a bit convaluted.I'll stick with the books,and hopefully TWOW.
It's a long time ago now since I started the books,so I may have to reread a few to remind me where the story is up to before TWOW comes out.

 

[svalbard]

Martin watches the TV show. At what point will the TV show drive the plot for the books? So far it has being the other way round with last season moving further from the books.

 

[althea]

That is very interesting,svalbard. I think you have hit on something here.If George is really fed up with writing,he may take the lazy way out
and work from the TV series.It would be a shame if he does.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Martin watches the TV show. At what point will the TV show drive the plot for the books? So far it has being the other way round with last season moving further from the books.

Gosh, I hope not. Their "artistic choices" have not impressed me.

 

[sozme]

Gosh, I hope not. Their "artistic choices" have not impressed me.

For the TV show, here are some changes I do not like:

Spoiler

How about that Sansa marriage to Ramsey Bolton?
How about that Stannis burning his daughter at the stake?
How about that Mance not surviving
How about that Ser Barriston not surviving
How about the one where literally the whole NW kills Jon Snow (Yes I know in the book is betrayed too but they don't do like the TV show)
That Arya sequence where she kills Marik? Then her teacher kills himself? I dont remember that being in the book, either. Though I do remember she goes blind. And she does actually kill the insurance fraud artist.

 

[sozme]

I disagree here. If anything, the quality of AFFC and ADWD went down in comparison to the first three books due to the lack of an editor who could rein in GRRM which led to a lot of bloat. I say that as someone who enjoyed AFFC enough to read it three times. However, I read ADWD once and have no desire to read it again any time soon. There were two entire Tyrion chapters that could have been cut out with no effect on the story. Then throw in the Quentyn fiasco; he was an entire POV character who served absolutely no purpose other than to provide us a SHOCKING DEATH (meh). Anyway, I (and others) have written enough posts about that. The point is that taking longer isn't directly related to *good* quality. If anything, it appears that taking longer to write the books lowers the quality.

Heh I agree with you on Quentyn, what was his purpose. Literally feel like his POVs were a complete waste of time.

 

[Judderman]

For the TV show, here are some changes I do not like:

Honestly I don't think any of those changes are bad. Or at least some are good while others are just different. Mainly they are there to add drama or in some cases reduce number of characters/combine characters.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

For the TV show, here are some changes I do not like:

Spoiler

How about that Sansa marriage to Ramsey Bolton?
How about that Stannis burning his daughter at the stake?
How about that Mance not surviving
How about that Ser Barriston not surviving
How about the one where literally the whole NW kills Jon Snow (Yes I know in the book is betrayed too but they don't do like the TV show)
That Arya sequence where she kills Marik? Then her teacher kills himself? I dont remember that being in the book, either. Though I do remember she goes blind. And she does actually kill the insurance fraud artist.

Meh. Changes like these wouldn't bother me if they were done better and had been better grounded in earlier developments that had happened and if they hadn't gone too much into black and white as opposed to shades of grey with some characters and events. I spoke enough about moments which most bothered me as they made the show even more grimdark without showing that flickers of light and goodness still truly exist, captured in short scenes of serenity and humour.

 

[althea]

If I've enjoyed a book,or series of books,I never watch the film or TV series that it spawns.
They are never as good as the book.
I know sometimes it must be impossible to follow the book exactly for production reasons.
I made an exception with the Lord of the Rings trilogy,but moaned half the way through each film about changes I did not like.
I'm better off sticking to the books.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

If I've enjoyed a book,or series of books,I never watch the film or TV series that it spawns.
They are never as good as the book.
I know sometimes it must be impossible to follow the book exactly for production reasons.
I made an exception with the Lord of the Rings trilogy,but moaned half the way through each film about changes I did not like.
I'm better off sticking to the books.

I actually liked several of the changes made in LOTR movie trilogy. I think that many of them were very much for the best (especially in regards to some tedious events and some events that never truly contributed to the overall plot, but really to the world building and that didn't make much matter in the context of the trilogy. Some of them hadn't really contributed to anything, not even character development or establishment). Hobbit on the other hand... I shudder.

 

[Overread]

When I think of Lord of the Rings the only two things I dislike in any great way are:
1) The lack of a Scouring of the Shire as I felt this was what made the book come together and wrap the hobbit world into that of middle earth as a whole. Considering how distant it was in teh books and then even more so in the films I felt the films it would have been a key part not a projection of the future for 5 seconds in one scene as it was

2) The lack of any communication with the Eagles (I fully admit this is partly spurred by the lack of any such scene in the Hobbit where it originally did happen in the book). To many see the eagles as "cast spell giant eagles" and do question why they didn't just ride them across the lands as they are so easy to call. Indeed they almost appear like a plot hole escape option in the films - a thing that could have been cured with a short scene to introduce them as characters

 

[MWagner]

Indeed they almost appear like a plot hole escape option in the films

Not just in the films...

 

[Mark Ragland]

It seems pretty clear to me that it's gotten to the point where Martin dreads sitting down to write these novels. And like all of us faced with a project we dread, he procrastinates by diverting himself with other projects. It might be best for readers, and for Martin himself, if he just hands off the series to another writer to finish.

That may have to happen. Remember that Sanderson took over the WoT series after Jordan died. And, I thought that the series was better for it.

 

[Judderman]

We could vote for the final book author with an X-Factor style show. :-O

 

[Overread]

The sad thing is that with so many fans and being so exposed now he likely feels he really has to do a freaking fantastic job on it. So all the abuse and pain of delays is likely only because he wants fans to be happier and to be happier himself with what he produces.

It also wouldn't surprise me if he's also writing a lot more of the next books now. That this delay isn't just one book but several so that they tie together well and that he doesn't write himself into a corner. He's written and published his series as he's gone, which is not uncommon, but does leave an author open to problems of plot traps that get established early and then, even simple things, can't be changed later on easily or at all. As a result a character or scene or whole country could end up in the "wrong" position for want of what could be a sentence or three of change earlier in the series.

So instead write a bulk of the structure now, takes longer, but means not only can the following books come faster, but with less chance of him trapping himself story wise.

 

[sozme]

The sad thing is that with so many fans and being so exposed now he likely feels he really has to do a freaking fantastic job on it. So all the abuse and pain of delays is likely only because he wants fans to be happier and to be happier himself with what he produces.

It also wouldn't surprise me if he's also writing a lot more of the next books now. That this delay isn't just one book but several so that they tie together well and that he doesn't write himself into a corner. He's written and published his series as he's gone, which is not uncommon, but does leave an author open to problems of plot traps that get established early and then, even simple things, can't be changed later on easily or at all. As a result a character or scene or whole country could end up in the "wrong" position for want of what could be a sentence or three of change earlier in the series.

So instead write a bulk of the structure now, takes longer, but means not only can the following books come faster, but with less chance of him trapping himself story wise.

I think he just procrastinates.
Which is why he works on a bunch of other projects (illustration books, edited volumes of short stories, anthologies, etc.) and runs a very active blog.
He is just simply putting it off for whatever reason.

 

[althea]

Perhaps he is waiting for inspiration?

 

[E.Maree]

He seems really down in his latest journal update, I just feel sorry for him. Writing under that amount of pressure would be a nightmare.

 

[Jeremy M. Gottwig]

Martin watches the TV show. At what point will the TV show drive the plot for the books? So far it has being the other way round with last season moving further from the books.

I enjoyed the show at first but grew tired of some of the more shocking embellishments. I haven't seen past season two and don't care to start back up again. I do, however, intend to continue reading the books (where such content doesn't bother me).

So I suppose if Martin did start pilfering from the TV series, I wouldn't be able to tell.

 

[MWagner]

Perhaps he is waiting for inspiration?

I think he's been waiting for inspiration in bringing the main threads of the story together for over a decade. And his efforts to buy himself time - the digressions, the journeys, the sub-plots, the hundreds of new characters - have only made the challenge that much more difficult. The frustration in his posts on the subject is palpable.