Writing Workshop Group - TOEGTW Discussion: Please Read First Post
- Thread starter Vertigo
- Start date
No reason not too Moonbat unless you want to discuss the chapter contents here first. That's really what this thread is supposed to be for. Also we're doing 12 and 13 together for this first session and there's probably more to dicsuss in 13; 12 is pretty short.
Actually that reminds me I need to create a separate thread for discussing our exercise submissions. As, like the challenges, I think that will be tidier than having submissions and discussion all jumbled up together.
Actually that reminds me I need to create a separate thread for discussing our exercise submissions. As, like the challenges, I think that will be tidier than having submissions and discussion all jumbled up together.
Warren_Paul
Banishment this world!
Hey everyone, I'm a bit busy to take part in the exercises right now. I've got the book, and will follow along and join in discussion where I can, but right now I've got a lot of other work to do.
I'll be watching you though...
I'll be watching you though...
Just a thought about the first exercise for Chapter 12.
I would suggest that we don't limit ourselves to the topics listed in the book. We are after all interested in writing fictional stories, so I see no reason not to pick fictional topics for an expository paragraph. However they should still be suitable topics that, in the words of the book, "answer questions like What? Why? How? What was the cause? The effect? Like what? Unlike what?"
So maybe things like: What is the effect of longevity on society? What are the social implications of space flight? Why do Dwarves hate Elves? The morality of sorcery. You get the idea. Pick a subject that suits you or even that is relevant to your current WIP.
What do you think?
I would suggest that we don't limit ourselves to the topics listed in the book. We are after all interested in writing fictional stories, so I see no reason not to pick fictional topics for an expository paragraph. However they should still be suitable topics that, in the words of the book, "answer questions like What? Why? How? What was the cause? The effect? Like what? Unlike what?"
So maybe things like: What is the effect of longevity on society? What are the social implications of space flight? Why do Dwarves hate Elves? The morality of sorcery. You get the idea. Pick a subject that suits you or even that is relevant to your current WIP.
What do you think?
I'm happy either way. Local politics was okay for me, though. In Northern Ireland, they're like a work of fiction anyway.
Yeah I'm not saying ignore the topics suggested in the book just that I don't see any reason to limit ourselves to them. After all there are no 'official' exercise solutions.
Edit: And yes Springs, local politics is something of a hobby over there I was over in Belfast for a week last summer, great city; I was working just down by the river where it's all been done up.
Edit: And yes Springs, local politics is something of a hobby over there
I was over in Belfast for a week last summer, great city; I was working just down by the river where it's all been done up.
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I was considering the economics option, but I like the idea of making it relevant to SFF. We could even mine the suggestions in the book for ideas. Local politics in the Otherworld or the economics of asteroid mining. Good call.
mithril
"Hope is not victory."
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2011
- Messages
- 161
+1 for vertigo's suggestion as well. Since we are all SFF enthusiasts, it makes it much more relevant and interesting to learn how to apply the techniques to 'our' kind of works.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to look at the book at all till now. So should I give the preceding chapters (1-11) a quick read through before starting ch 12 & ch 13?
Unfortunately I haven't been able to look at the book at all till now. So should I give the preceding chapters (1-11) a quick read through before starting ch 12 & ch 13?
At risk of jumping the gun (only by a day) I thought I'd post a few thoughts on chapters 12 and 13.
Chapter 12, Basic Structure, was pretty strightforward but I had a few thoughts.
1) I noted the comment "A good topic sentence is concise..." You may have noticed that this is something I'm not generally good at.
2) I found the idea of sentences as the analytic elements of a paragraph useful and also helpful towards that previously mentioned conciseness. In particular the exercise I am submitting for this is an idea that I have been kicking around for a couple of months, but in very rambling and distinctly unconcise manner. This analytical approach has (I hope) improved that somewhat. My first attempt at writing it out in 'Free Writing' (ch.5 pg.25) was about four times as long!
3) One thing I was not very convinced by was creating emphasis by placing key words at the end of sentences. I have looked at examples of this being both done and not done and as a reader I didn't feel much difference in empahsis.
Chapter 13, Paragraph Unity, I found very interesting indeed. For fictional purposes I thought the 'master plan' approach a little too formal. On the other hand (see what I did there), the section on linking sentences was really interesting. I found the repeating key words great for emphasis. The conjunctive adverbs were fascinating; we all do this of course but, for me at least, not consciously. Making it conscious has definitely helped me pull paragraphs together better. I particularly liked the 'syntactic patterning' as it seems to help give a pleasing rythm to the paragraphs.
I am also about to post my exercise submissions. Again jumping the gun, possibly a little more so, but I wanted to give people an early opportunity to agree or disagree with the way I have presented them. I shall post my ch 13 submission later.
Chapter 12, Basic Structure, was pretty strightforward but I had a few thoughts.
1) I noted the comment "A good topic sentence is concise..." You may have noticed that this is something I'm not generally good at
. 2) I found the idea of sentences as the analytic elements of a paragraph useful and also helpful towards that previously mentioned conciseness. In particular the exercise I am submitting for this is an idea that I have been kicking around for a couple of months, but in very rambling and distinctly unconcise manner. This analytical approach has (I hope) improved that somewhat. My first attempt at writing it out in 'Free Writing' (ch.5 pg.25) was about four times as long!
3) One thing I was not very convinced by was creating emphasis by placing key words at the end of sentences. I have looked at examples of this being both done and not done and as a reader I didn't feel much difference in empahsis.
Chapter 13, Paragraph Unity, I found very interesting indeed. For fictional purposes I thought the 'master plan' approach a little too formal. On the other hand (see what I did there
), the section on linking sentences was really interesting. I found the repeating key words great for emphasis. The conjunctive adverbs were fascinating; we all do this of course but, for me at least, not consciously. Making it conscious has definitely helped me pull paragraphs together better. I particularly liked the 'syntactic patterning' as it seems to help give a pleasing rythm to the paragraphs.I am also about to post my exercise submissions. Again jumping the gun, possibly a little more so, but I wanted to give people an early opportunity to agree or disagree with the way I have presented them. I shall post my ch 13 submission later.
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[Apologies for the double post]
I would say it is worth giving them a quick once over, but not absolutely necessary. Personally I found chapters 6, 7 and 8 particularly useful. I wanted to find 11, Point of View, persona, and Tone, interesting but for creative writing I think it would need a whole lot more; several chapters not just one short one. Maybe there will be more in ch 31, Narration, but that also looks quite short.
I've not got the book, so I don't know precisely what is said about this, but I thought I'd just butt in anyway
-- I would agree that the end of a sentence can produce emphasis, but so can putting something at the beginning. What you don't want to do is bury the important word/fact/whatever in the middle of the sentence. As an example I've just snatched from my WIP:Inverting that last sentence, "which had once been her home, which had one been her father's house and workshop" just doesn't cut it, and not only because of the rhythm.
Sorry. I'll go away and leave you alone now.
Interesting TJ and I can see what you mean in that sentence. In fairness it also works well in the exammple in the book:
The Big Bull market was dead.
Opening a paragraph on collapse of the stock market in 1929.
I guess it depends a lot on the structure and rythm of the sentence. I shall have to keep an open mind.
And I'm sure we are very happy to receive additional input!
The Big Bull market was dead.
Opening a paragraph on collapse of the stock market in 1929.
I guess it depends a lot on the structure and rythm of the sentence. I shall have to keep an open mind.
And I'm sure we are very happy to receive additional input!
Springs and Moonbat, both commented on their exercises that they thought they might have done it wrong. I'm not sure I could see quite why. Particularly the outline is only that, an outline. I don't think how many points you make in the outline or how it's laid out is important; it's only meant to be a guide to help get your thoughts in order for the paragraph.
You could always discuss it here. After all that is what this thread is meant for; discussion of the book.
Actually I've been wondering whether we shouldn't do all discusssion in this thread, as talking about the exercises will inevitably lead to discussing the relevant chapter. Or do you think this thread will get too confusing then?
You could always discuss it here. After all that is what this thread is meant for; discussion of the book.
Actually I've been wondering whether we shouldn't do all discusssion in this thread, as talking about the exercises will inevitably lead to discussing the relevant chapter. Or do you think this thread will get too confusing then?
Just a word to those of you having problems with spacing when you paste your exercises into the review thread.
I have been using Word with the font set to Verdana 12pt and that pastes perfectly into the threads (except for tabbing). However I think you might also need to make sure that you have the box that you type/paste your post into set to 'formatted'. That is; the button with A/A in the top right should be highlighted. In this mode, for example, clicking ctrl B will make the text bold, in the plain text mode it will insert .... It seems to be the plain text mode that is resulting in problems.
I have been using Word with the font set to Verdana 12pt and that pastes perfectly into the threads (except for tabbing). However I think you might also need to make sure that you have the box that you type/paste your post into set to 'formatted'. That is; the button with A/A in the top right should be highlighted. In this mode, for example, clicking ctrl B will make the text bold, in the plain text mode it will insert .... It seems to be the plain text mode that is resulting in problems.
As we draw towards the end of the first session/week. How do people feel about the format/approach.
· Do two chapters a week seem like a reasonable quantity?
· Is one week for a session too long, too short or just right?
· Is there a sensible way to keep the post sizes down as Glen suggests?
· Any other criticisms or suggestions to improve the workshop?
Oh and by the way in my above post I should have said 10pt. And I notice that even things like text colour come through correctly in the paste from Word.
Oh and another little tip if you are doing reviewing in Word and you want to quote with a name you can put in (without the spaces) [ Q U O T E =Vertigo]….[/ Q U O T E]. Sorry if that’s a bit of a “duh, of course” tip to any of you!
· Do two chapters a week seem like a reasonable quantity?
· Is one week for a session too long, too short or just right?
· Is there a sensible way to keep the post sizes down as Glen suggests?
· Any other criticisms or suggestions to improve the workshop?
Oh and by the way in my above post I should have said 10pt. And I notice that even things like text colour come through correctly in the paste from Word.
Oh and another little tip if you are doing reviewing in Word and you want to quote with a name you can put in (without the spaces) [ Q U O T E =Vertigo]….[/ Q U O T E]. Sorry if that’s a bit of a “duh, of course” tip to any of you!
I think a week for a session is about right, as it allows some leeway for people to post and respond, given the real life constraints and time differences.
Glen's suggestion is good. As you've said, perhaps occasional double posting isn't such a bad thing for this.
As to 2 chapters a week - well, if they were particularly short, we could perhaps do more, but others might take more discussion. Chs 12&13 didn't require that much discussion, I thought. I don't know if other chapters will (still reading through it). Maybe 2 chapters a week is right, for now. We can always change it later, perhaps?
Glen's suggestion is good. As you've said, perhaps occasional double posting isn't such a bad thing for this.
As to 2 chapters a week - well, if they were particularly short, we could perhaps do more, but others might take more discussion. Chs 12&13 didn't require that much discussion, I thought. I don't know if other chapters will (still reading through it). Maybe 2 chapters a week is right, for now. We can always change it later, perhaps?
AnyaKimlin
Confuddled
Sorry I've been out of it - I needed to get a synopsis and main work done for a magazine. I'll join in next week and have done it mentally.
The format seems to be working well.
The format seems to be working well.
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