Writing Workshop Group - TOEGTW Discussion: Please Read First Post

[Vertigo]

I thought this week worked well. Two chapters was a good fit for the week, allowing time for a discussion.

Which chapter(s) do we cover this coming week?

Sorry I've been out of it - I needed to get a synopsis and main work done for a magazine. I'll join in next week and have done it mentally.

The format seems to be working well.

Yeah I'm pleased I feel I'm learning stuff and that's the main thing

Not to worry Anya, I suspect I'll be the same next week. I'll try and get stuff done but I'm on the road from Tuesday through Friday and not sure how much internet access I'll have or how much time Unfortunately the same thing will be happening at the end of the month for about 5 days.


I figure we should do the next two chapters on Paragraph Development: ch14 Illustration and Restatement and ch15 Comparison, Contrast, and Analogy. I've had a quick read through and there's some good stuff, as well as some I'm a little confused by. I think people might want to pick and choose a little on the exercise front as there are a few more this time, with exercises for each part of each chapter.

There is one thing I noticed that amused me. Check out the third paragaraph in the Analogy section of ch15 (ignoring the quote) beginning "Analogies differ from..." It exemplifies quite a few of the techniques so far covered; topic sentence, master plan, illustration, contrasting, keywords, linking phrases.

 

[mithril]

sorry i couldn't join in this time... I did manage to read up till ch 13 by the last few hours of sunday but no submissions unfortunately

The 1 week timing seems to work well i think...

 

[TacticalLoco]

Folks, my sincerest apologizes.
As I'm sure is quite evident by now, I simply do not have the time to devote to a study group right now.
I still think it is a great idea and of course wish all the best developing your writing skills.
With lunch I may be able to jump back in later.
Good luck!
Tac

 

[Abernovo]

Sorry we're losing you, Tac. Hopefully, you'll be able to join us again, later.

On my part, apologies too. I've been stupidly busy this week. On the plus side, I may have a little short-term work lined up.

With luck, I hope to have Chs14&15 posted tonight or tomorrow. I'm not intentionally slacking.

 

[Glen]

I had thought the exercises in Ch 15 were going to be relevant only for business / non-fiction writing, but I found myself using one of the techniques yesterday. I had to quickly describe two ships and offer a contrast between them. I opted for the approach of describing all relevant aspects of the first ship, before moving onto the second. I think I preferred that option in the exercise too - it seemed to be a clearer read without having to jump back and forth when the comparison is relatively straightforward.

I suspect the option of describing each element of comparison/contrast for each subject in turn might work better when there is more to say. That way the reader can dwell and compare one element at a time.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Interestingly, Glen, I'm a qm to your pm but I found the same: it is by far the smoothest approach when contrasting for business - and let's be honest readability and transparency are the key words - plus breaking down jargon - an ability I find really helps me avoid info dumping. I'm starting to realise through this how many key writing concepts I use in my professional life can be transferred to fiction.

 

[mithril]

I'm sorry folks... I decided that I'd definitely submit the exercises for this week. Doesn't seem to be happening.To be honest my WIP has been getting all the 'writing time' I've managed to scrounge up recently...

I had high hopes from this discussion but I don't think I'd be regular at all and so it's only fair to let the group know.

All the best everyone!

 

[Glen]

I'm starting to realise...how many key writing concepts I use in my professional life can be transferred to fiction.

Agreed. I used to think they were different beasts, but now I reckon they are just different subjects. Clarity, as you say, is the key. I do like a bit of an occasional wig-out with my writing, just to keep the reader awake, and cos its fun writing. Perhaps that I will need to keep out of my business writing :0)

btw - you lost me with the qm pm thing. Am I a project mgr and you a quality mgr...?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

btw - you lost me with the qm pm thing. Am I a project mgr and you a quality mgr...?

Yes, see how good I was at not using jargon? I'm also terribly good at filling in forms but have yet to find a transferable niche for that little skill....

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I now have two copies of the book lol Will jump in.

 

[Glen]

I now have two copies of the book lol

You're going to have to work twice as hard as the rest of us...

 

[Vertigo]

Folks, my sincerest apologizes.
As I'm sure is quite evident by now, I simply do not have the time to devote to a study group right now.
I still think it is a great idea and of course wish all the best developing your writing skills.
With lunch I may be able to jump back in later.
Good luck!
Tac

I'm sorry folks... I decided that I'd definitely submit the exercises for this week. Doesn't seem to be happening.To be honest my WIP has been getting all the 'writing time' I've managed to scrounge up recently...

I had high hopes from this discussion but I don't think I'd be regular at all and so it's only fair to let the group know.

All the best everyone!

Sorry to hear that TL and Mithril. I'm sure no one will be bothered if you choose to continue following along onthe periphery. I do fully understand. As you may have noticed I have been away without internet all week. I'm now frantically trying to catch up with the Chrons and then I'll try and get the exercise done!

I had thought the exercises in Ch 15 were going to be relevant only for business / non-fiction writing, but I found myself using one of the techniques yesterday.

I have been surprised at just how much of the stuff on Essays in general can actually be very relevant to fiction writing. Sure, maybe not used quite as formally (I can't see the points being covered in an expository paragraph being numbered too often in creative writing!) but there is still a lot of relevance for using the techiniques for things like emphasis, illustration, comparison, unity etc. Ideas like the syntactic patterning, repeated keywords, linking words etc. can work extremely well in anything from exposition to plain old dialogue.

I now have two copies of the book lol Will jump in.

Yay!!!

 

[Glen]

It has been interesting to read other takes on the exercises. One thing I noticed is that the comparision exercises seem necessarily to have a good deal of repetition - we need to keep referring to the subject and the points of difference - which can make the paras difficult to read.

I found the earlier exercise using restatement to be difficult for the same reason - it was difficult to make the para sound good. Now, there may have been an element of my being a poor student here, wanting to get the exercise finished, but the challenge is still there. If we want to use the technique well, we are going to have to work hard to make it sound good.

My comments in the exercise section, while flippant, hold true. I really did think my output sounded like Just A Minute and Swiss Tony. And my challenge, using these tecniques, would be to avoid that.

 

[choccoweeble]

Apologies for not getting last week's exercises in, or doing any commentary. I had a friend pass away so have been a bit distracted. I'm going to try and catch up this week. Keep up the good work everyone!

 

[Vertigo]

Chocco, I'm sorry to hear that. My condolences.

Glen I think it is very natural to have a certain amount of repetition when comparing and or contrasting. But I agree about the restatement exercise. I found this particularly hard to do; it just didn't seem to come naturally. I was also a little unclear about how to do it.

In the first example in the book (about American men crying) the writer simply seems to have used the word crying multiple times. Is that really restatement? The second example seemed more explicitly restatement with the repeated clause 'There were pirates', except that the repeated clause isn't really the statement, the rest of the sentence is the statement and that is different each time.

I definitely have a problem distinguishing the repeating keywords or the syntactic patterning from ch13 from the restatement of ch14. They seem essentially the same in execution and the only difference is that the use in ch13 is for emphasis and in ch14 it is for illustration, but then that is also really a form of emphasis... isn't it?

Incidentally (and this isn't a dig at you Chocco) I'm a little sad that there hasn't been more discussion of the chapter contents.

I'm going to shoot over to the exercise thread and see if I can chuck in a few words about the submissions, but other than that I guess it is onwards to chapters 16 and 17

 

[Jo Zebedee]

To be fair, I think at least 4 of the participants are planning submissions to either AR or SC this week, so time has been perhaps limited this week. I know I've been flat out and struggled to read teh chapters and do the excersises and still get ready for deadline.

 

[Vertigo]

Ah I was unaware of that. All these things like deadlines, work and so on really do tend to get in the way of life don't they!

 

[Glen]

planning submissions to either AR or SC

Springs, tsk, tsk, more acronyms.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Ooops.

A new one.

SFAAW?

(stop faffing around, and write.) Just for you.

 

[Glen]

SFAAW?

Lol. I've made my target for today, in fact exceeded it by one word. Now I can faff all I like.