Grammar checker rant

[The Judge]

You're right, Parson -- it should be "well". But, with all due respect to your parishioners** I doubt they will be debating niceties of grammar after the sermon, so use which feels most natural for them. Or you could say "fine" or "for the best" and avoid the dilemma!


** coming as they do from a nation in which individuals can say "I'm good" when their moral qualities aren't in question, just the state of their coffee reserves...

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

This was a hilarious thread. Some of Leisha's old examples were great.


But to be honest, I don't know why Works isn't acting like Word. It's basically just Word Lite. I am thankful for it though.

 

[Parson]

See, I'd say 'all right in the end' but both 'good' and 'well' work for me too. Can't tell you whether it's grammatically correct or not though.

This would be a good solution, but not a good translation of Havel's quote.

You're right, Parson -- it should be "well". But, with all due respect to your parishioners** I doubt they will be debating niceties of grammar after the sermon, so use which feels most natural for them. Or you could say "fine" or "for the best" and avoid the dilemma!


** coming as they do from a nation in which individuals can say "I'm good" when their moral qualities aren't in question, just the state of their coffee reserves...

So right, your honor. I've often said to a waitress "I'm good" which s/he has understood as something much less than a moral certainty. Also, no one but me is going to be concerned about the state of my grammar. It's essentially a blue collar church. (Often leading them to shake their head at my foibles and me theirs.)

Decision made, I'll say "well," but still wonder why my Grammatik accepted both.

 

[Vertigo]

Probably too late but you could say: ...will turn out for the good.

 

[Parson]

Vertigo Thanks for the idea. Since it's a PowerPoint and it's not Sunday yet (here) I could still take your suggestion. But I think I'll stick with "well."

Clarification, this discussion caused me a little guilt. I think I was too cavalier about the English ability of my congregation. Several months ago I used "metaphor" in my outline speaking in general of a figure of speech. In the youth group after the church 2 of the members spoke to the leader and mentioned that the figure of speech in question was not a metaphor. (When I looked at it they were right it was a simile.)

This was too good of an opportunity, so the next week I called them up to the pulpit and gave them a small prize for paying attention in church and in school.*

It was a cool moment in worship.


*Perhaps the quality of education in Iowa is not as bad as so many suppose.

 

[HareBrain]

Since this is a grammar-themed thread ...

This was too good of an opportunity

Can anyone tell me if the "of" is a genuine difference between US/British English? I would always say "too good an opportunity", but I have seen the "of" creep in more and more recently, almost always (unlike in this case) from sources I wouldn't trust.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

As far as I know, it's one of the quirky things that can go both ways. However, I tend to be one to prefer to leave the "of" out of such a phrase. It sounds smoother without it. An example of proper usage would be...say, "The House of Evils."


Too good of an opportunity sounds wrong to me. Too good an opportunity. I think the word preceding "of" could help dictate on whether or not "of" is even necessary. "Of," I believe, seems to combine two or more nouns together into a descriptive/possessive stance.


Or I could be spewing complete nonsense here so tangled up that I doubt even seasoned editing eyes such as TE could unknot.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Tautology. "Pretty" and "blonde" are clearly synonyms...

Should I suspect you of blondeness, Your Honour?

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Should I suspect you of blondeness, Your Honour?

No, but I am, so that should immediately disprove the synonymy of "pretty" and "blond..." (Or handsome, in my case. I'm not female.)

 

[HareBrain]

Too good of an opportunity sounds wrong to me. Too good an opportunity. I think the word preceding "of" could help dictate on whether or not "of" is even necessary.

You need "of" with "much" of course. Maybe that's where the confusion arises. But I think you can show that "of" is redundant (and wrong) by the way you can restructure the sentence.

Too good an opportunity to pass up = An opportunity too good to pass up.

Too good of an opportunity to pass up = An opportunity too good ... of ... er ...

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Indeed, HB, and that's also the case with tenses and numerical subject-verb or subject-adjective agreement, many of which listed earlier in the thread are prime examples.

 

[Mouse]

No, but I am, so that should immediately disprove the synonymy of "pretty" and "blond..." (Or handsome, in my case. I'm not female.)

You can most definitely get pretty blond males.

I'd drop the 'of' in the opportunity sentence too.

 

[The Judge]

Parson -- I love that story! Better make sure you get it right this week, then! (Good luck with the sermon -- a good quote you've chosen for it, as well.)

Can anyone tell me if the "of" is a genuine difference between US/British English? I would always say "too good an opportunity", but I have seen the "of" creep in more and more recently

It is wrong for formal written English (sorry, Parson...) but I think it's common enough in spoken, and not just restricted to US idioms. Certainly, I've heard the extra "of" for years, particularly in constructions with "off" eg "I told him to get off of his backside and help out."

Should I suspect you of blondeness, Your Honour?

Not, alas, since I was young, and even then only in the summer when fair mouse (not Mouse, obviously**) was sun-bleached. The red-head in me is apparent more often, though unfortunately not often enough nowadays.


** Not that I'm saying Mouse isn't fair in the non-blonde sense, here, of course.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

You can most definitely get pretty blond males.

Well I'm certainly not one of them.

 

[Parson]

Parson arrives back at Chrons to discover that he offered everyone to good of an opportunity to pass up.

Now duly chastised he will be a bit more careful in his grammar usage among this august group. He does wish to than The Judge for commenting on the story rather than limiting herself to comments on his unthinking grammar.

I did get the grammar right and the sermon was positively received. We had a family visit with 13 (yes 13) children.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

It is wrong for formal written English (sorry, Parson...) but I think it's common enough in spoken, and not just restricted to US idioms. Certainly, I've heard the extra "of" for years, particularly in constructions with "off" eg "I told him to get off of his backside and help out."

The "of" in constructions like "too good of an opportunity" drives me crazy, too, and it's become very common.

But I do beg to differ in this comparison, TJ. I don't think it's at all the same usage in "get off of his backside", which is perfectly correct although the "of" is unnecessary.

"...of his backside" is a prepositional phrase correctly modifying "off", which is fine. I think technically it's more correct with the "of" than without, but I like it better without, where it's only implied. It still fits into the diagramming.

"..of an opportunity" is trying to be a prepositional phrase modifying "good", which doesn't work. The necessary parts are actually "it was...an opportunity", and while you can say "it was a good opportunity", with good modifying opportunity, or "it was too good an opportunity", with good modifying opportunity and too modifying good, the "of" just won't squeeze in there anywhere.

Parson, I suppose all 13 of those children were shiny clean, combed and brushed and dressed properly? I don't know how people do it. I'm lucky if I get to Walmart with my two kids both wearing shoes, and it's guaranteed that at least one of them will have a dirty face. I couldn't even think about church.

 

[The Judge]

Hmmm. I accept the two types of sentence aren't on all fours, but I don't think "... of his backside" could be correct in any sense here, after all "of his backside" would mean belonging or pertaining to it. I did wonder whether it's a transference of "from" ie "...get off from his backside" which makes slightly more sense, but I've never heard that expression used.

 

[Venusian Broon]

But I do beg to differ in this comparison, TJ. I don't think it's at all the same usage in "get off of his backside", which is perfectly correct although the "of" is unnecessary.

"...of his backside" is a prepositional phrase correctly modifying "off", which is fine. I think technically it's more correct with the "of" than without, but I like it better without, where it's only implied. It still fits into the diagramming.

Oddly I came across a usage note on this whilst looking for something else in the Collins dictionary:

In standard English, "off" is not followed by of: 'he stepped off (not off of) the platform.' The use of "off" after verbs such as borrow, buy, get, as in 'I got this chair off an antique dealer', is acceptable in conversation, but should be replaced in formal writing by "from".

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Hmm. Interesting. I would never say "off from", for anything, so perhaps that's an American English thing for me.

I would agree that "get off of his backside" is not quite the same thing as, for example, "get off of his couch" -- he is sitting on the couch and needs to get off of it, where he isn't sitting on his backside in quite the same way. Someone else could be sitting on his backside and need to get off of it -- this happens quite a lot in my house, with two children who like to sit on each other. However, in all of those constructions, the "of" should really only be implied and not actually used, at least to my mind. It's possible that British English considers those all to be "from" instead. Is that the case?

 

[The Judge]

No -- as I say I've never heard of it, but I was just trying to work out where the errant "of" might have come from. One of the many peculiarities of the spoken language!