DISCUSSION -- MAY 2017 75-word Writing Challenge

That's in the rules: Rules for the Writing Challenges

If it's a standard hyphenated word, he said, over-enthusiastically, it's one word. If you're-just-making-stuff-up-now, it's 6 (in that example).

I'd have thought both off-the-cuff and free-for-all were fine, providing you weren't writing something like "He brushed the lint off-the-cuff." or "The cookies are free-for-all."
 
Robert Mackay said:
That's in the rules: Rules for the Writing Challenges

If it's a standard hyphenated word, he said, over-enthusiastically, it's one word. If you're-just-making-stuff-up-now, it's 6 (in that example).

I'd have thought both off-the-cuff and free-for-all were fine, providing you weren't writing something like "He brushed the lint off-the-cuff." or "The cookies are free-for-all."
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Thanks, sorry, yes, I just checked:

Compound words with or without hyphens can be a problem. Accepted or validly-constructed compounds will be counted as one word -- eg call-out, blackboard, blue-black, overnight, over-optimistic, ex-wife, x-ray, single-minded, longbow, long-lost. Non-standard compounds and hyphenated phrases will be treated as separate words eg call-centre, blue-moon, over-the-top, single-parent, longjump. When in doubt, either contact a moderator (see below), or err on the side of caution and count the words as if they are written separately.

It's still a bit hazy? I do use hyphenated phrases. However, I do usually treat them as individual words. It seems a bit clunky to have to contact a moderator, in the course of doing one's word-count?

In fact, the trick is probably to come in under the word-count, a few words short, just to be sure.

Thanks again.
Cheers.
:)
 
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It is a bit hazy indeed. Hyphens are what cause the most wrangling in the staff room. It's best to always assume a hyphenated set of words may count as more than one, and ask. Generally speaking, but by no means a guarantee, a hyphenated thing used as an adjective is more likely to count as one word than the same thing used as a noun, for instance.

Far better to be clunky than disqualified. :)
 
I tend to work without hyphens, making a mental note of where to add them before submitting, and measure the word count against the un-hyphened version. Only if I desperately needed an extra word or two would I risk it and even then I would probably ask to be certain.
 
RJM Corbet said:
While here, can the mods help clarify the use of hyphenated words, or groups of words?

eg: off-the-cuff OR free-for-all ?
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As you'll appreciate we can't possibly compile a complete list of acceptable hyphenated words, so when they appear we have to look at them on a case by case (or even case-by-case ;)) basis and we try and reach a consensus. Like all good lawyers we look at statute and precedent when reaching a decision and in this case "statute" means reputable dictionaries.

So for those two specific examples, "free-for-all" appears hyphenated -- and therefore would almost certainly be accepted as one word -- in both the online Collins and my paper ODE (when used as defined, of course, and not, as Robert suggests, in something like "The sign by the apples said Free For All"). However, "off-the-cuff" is a little more problematic. It's not in my ODE at all, and in Collins it's given both ways, sometimes in the same definition o_O so is undoubtedly one of those words in a state of flux, meaning there would probably be some discussion in the Staff Room, and much crunching of biscuits and glugging of tea, as whether to allow it as one word or three.

So if using a compound, take it in three stages:
  • check in two or three good dictionaries to see how it's given
  • if you can't find it, or the results are inconclusive, or you want to be sure, check with a mod and ask for a ruling
  • if you've left it too late and/or you can't wait for a ruling, assume the worst and count it as individual words.
 
If it helps -- and of course it won't, but what the hell! -- I tend to treat hyphens as spaces when I count my own entries unless I can think of a very good reason not to... which cannot be simply: "It'll be over the word count if a treat it as a space."

My approach is, of course, determined partly by the problem that I tend to enter each Challenge at almost literally the last minute, when I'm often the only moderator logged in (which, in effect, means that there is no-one -- or no one, if you prefer -- to give a judgement that will stand much examination).
 
NEXT is 6, @Starbeast – This delightful mash-up of a classic sci-fi film and iconic fairytale characters is right on the nose.

HOT GAS, @RJM Corbet – Referring to a different kind of ‘end’, this story of a captive’s daring escape reaches an explosive finale.

The Story at 610 McClellan Avenue, @Tywin – A beautiful, too-good-to-be-true story of a fantasy world where a loving couple are free to come and go as they please. Utterly unbelievable.

The Worlds' End, @Robert Mackay – An amusingly one-sided conversation between a bartender and his patron that alludes to a world far richer and more mysterious than the mundane surroundings would suggest. Mine’s a pint of mild.

When All is One, @Joshua Jones – There is literally no future for the subjects of this melancholy story of love and regret.
 
dannymcg said:
UK query...
Is there some significance to that address - 610 McClellan Avenue?
Like, uh I dunno, is it where Shaggy from Scooby Doo lives for example?
What I mean is it some culture thing patently obvious to Americans of a particular age group?
Like 23 Railway Cuttings to a Brit?
Click to expand...
610 McClellan Ave, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, 66027.

My address :)
 
TheDustyZebra said:
Hyphens are what cause the most wrangling in the staff room.
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I know that not all the mods live in the same area, but I really want to believe that there is a real staff room that you all meet in. Maybe you teleport or use magic to get there. Then once you get there, it's pretty standard. All fluorescent lighting and an industrial coffee maker on the counter, maybe a white board that you take notes on during meetings.

After all, this is a science fiction and fantasy forum.
 
Cat's Cradle -- This touching fantasy vividly portrays the pain of letting go of those we care for.

Starbeast -- This dark variation on a classic tale reveals the great responsibility of the creator for the created.

RJM Corbett -- This Rabelaisian comedy shows how we all share the same human failings.

Tywin -- This sardonic fairy tale reminds the reader of the trials of daily life.

Robert Mackay -- This imaginative tale manages to create multiple realities through one half of a dialogue.

Joshua Jones -- This visionary story serves as a powerful fable of regret.
 
I don't remember saying I disliked verse!

Don't even know why I would say it, since I don't dislike it. Could I have said at some point that I don't think we should do a month where entries were required in verse?
 
Do you suppose it was immediately following the month where entries were required in the style of Kipling? :p
 
Ursa major said:
If it helps -- and of course it won't, but what the hell! -- I tend to treat hyphens as spaces when I count my own entries unless I can think of a very good reason not to... which cannot be simply: "It'll be over the word count if a treat it as a space."

My approach is, of course, determined partly by the problem that I tend to enter each Challenge at almost literally the last minute, when I'm often the only moderator logged in (which, in effect, means that there is no-one -- or no one, if you prefer -- to give a judgement that will stand much examination).
Click to expand...
I know. Thanks, Ursa, that's just it: the reality: entries are often rushed-in. Lol.

However: no excuse for sloppy standards. Not on Chrons. Never here :)
 
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