Voting and the challenges

[Ihe]

I don't think we want to penalize people for not voting. We'd rather find a way to encourage them, if such a way exists and is feasible.

I'm a fan of grace not law. The first breeds love, friends and comrades, the second breeds hate, opponents, and enemies. So, no penalties.

Not my intention to come across as a heartless dictator!! Positive reinforcement should always be the primary focus, and it yields the best results most of the time. But I thought about the different positive methods, and there really aren't that many apart from written reminders, which I don't think would solve much, TBH. Also, we've stopped tangible rewards for winners, so it wouldn't make sense to try them for voters.

I thought of "penalties" exclusively for entrants, not for all the voters, but I understand even that might be too harsh. BTW, penalty sounds too harsh for what I'm suggesting. It's not a penalty if it's incorporated as part of the main rules, IMO. It's more like a contract clause .

(...)this kind of thinking makes sense: "I am honing my craft by writing a 75 word story. If I win the competition I have something positive to show publisher/agent/fan about how well I'm writing. But spending the time to judge each story does not give me much in the way of help in my endeavors to write and be published and is therefore largely a waste of time."

@Parson is onto something with this. If entrants look for validation (and we all know we do ) and to improve our writing, maybe making a secondary event/activity out of the reading/reviewing of stories might garner more interest.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Cookies.

 

[Danny McG]

I enjoy the stretching my brain thing by writing a story but feel very guilty at vote time, it was slightly better when we had three but you feel you're offending people if you don't vote for them.

I read through all the wonderful entries and have saw a lot of participants in discussion forums being very erudite and learned and using way better grammar than me.

How can I judge them?

 

[nixie]

I don't look at the grammar or spelling, for me it's does it tell a story, fit the genre? Then I pick my favourite.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I enjoy the stretching my brain thing by writing a story but feel very guilty at vote time, it was slightly better when we had three but you feel you're offending people if you don't vote for them.

I read through all the wonderful entries and have saw a lot of participants in discussion forums being very erudite and learned and using way better grammar than me.

How can I judge them?

Well, that's where the shortlists help. With so few votes to go around, the main joy is in getting mentions. I don't think anyone gets offended by not getting votes, but it always helps the disappointment to see that you were one of the favorites for some people.

 

[Cat's Cradle]

I don't know. I would think a person can choose to submit a story or not ... discuss or not ... vote or not. I would be worried if we started seeing a set of rules that might stifle the way a person chooses to participate (and that dictate how a person must participate).

I know of another SF&F site that has flash fiction challenges. And they have on average perhaps ... 5-6 stories submitted per month, per challenge. And perhaps that many people - perhaps a few more - discussing the stories and voting. The challenges here seem a wonder to me. The quality of the submissions, of course, but just that so many people contribute in one way or another each month, every month.

It would be lovely if we had more voters. So maybe we can advertise the voting polls around the site a bit more (across various popular threads). Maybe, if there is an official Facebook or Twitter page for the site, the challenges and the polls and the dates for voting can be mentioned there. I don't think it would be fair if all of the responsibilities for expanding the voting pool fell solely on the moderators.

And danny, geesh, with your vast knowledge of SF&F who better to judge the entries?? (By judge I mean, as nixie said, read through the stories each month, and choose the one that most appeals to you.) If I was worried that I had to be as smart, or knowledgeable as the other folks posting stories, you'd not have seen me ever post anything here. Your stories are getting better all the time, I think ... and that's a large part of why the challenges exist. CC

 

[Bashfull]

My 2c: As part of a community one is obliged to participate in it. If I want feedback on my work, I should offer the same.

As the Parson might say:”Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

 

[chrispenycate]

It has frequently happened that I've listed those not yet voted in the discussion thread, and indeed some are frequent offenders. Should I send the list as a PM (ahem, conversation), useless if they're not logged on, or eMail? But I would add there are generally only two or three votes difference with the number of submitters, and if this is partly due to those who have not joined this particular challenge but nevertheless voted, it still comes down to the fact that the reason numerous good stories do not receive any votes is that others collect quite a few, and that, while I would love to have everyone meritworthy rewarded, it's not going to happen.

Just remember the 'challenge' is you versus your limitations, not against the others, and that votes, even shortlists, are the cherry on the cake, not the reason to write.

 

[Shyrka]

Should I send the list as a PM (ahem, conversation), useless if they're not logged on, or eMail?

I'm not certain, but I think I get email notifications when someone PMs me, so maybe that's not a bad idea? It needn't be much, just a basic 'you entered the challenge, remember to vote before time/date' template message.

 

[chrispenycate]

I'm not certain, but I think I get email notifications when someone PMs me, so maybe that's not a bad idea? It needn't be much, just a basic 'you entered the challenge, remember to vote before time/date' template message.

Say thirty six hours before the deadline? Might upset The Judge, TDZ, Ursa… who consider this the moment to look at the submissions at all - but I suppose my skin's thick enough

So better get back to reading (and putting little crosses next to) three hundred word stories so as not to be caught in my own trap.

 

[Ursa major]

I'll have you know that I look at the submissions -- well, the titles -- more than 120 hours before the poll closes. (I have to, otherwise I can't copy them -- and type in the authors' usernames -- into that self-same poll.)

Oh, and an hour or so before that, I look through the entries to check whether the story, the one I'm at that moment in the process of writing, isn't based on an idea that's already been used.

 

[Ihe]

Oh, and an hour or so before that, I look through the entries to check whether the story, the one I'm at that moment in the process of writing, isn't based on an idea that's already been used.

That's a dangerous rockstar life you lead sir.

 

[DelActivisto]

It might be a simple case of coming to the forum so sporadically and dropping a story, and forgetting to go vote. Or the assumption that there are lots of members reading the stories, so they'll vote, which obviously isn't the case.

I counted 42 votes and 47 contestants approx. So a few people just don't check in time. And if you look at the thread, at least 3 people, including myself, apologized for not realizing when the voting period was.

 

[Ursa major]

That's a dangerous rockstar life you lead sir.

The life of an expert procrastinator is never dull....

 

[TitaniumTi]

I always intend to vote, and I usually do so, but I'm finding it increasingly difficult. The quality of stories is usually so high that it's difficult to single out one story - or even three - to vote for. I also find it a balancing act; do I vote for the most appealing story, despite punctuation or spelling errors, or do I vote for the technically superb story that has almost as much appeal? Do I vote for the story I enjoy, or do I vote for the story that has greater impact, but touches on a theme I dislike, such as vampires or horror?

 

[Ihe]

When voting, I usually try to be as objective as I know how. I try to leave my tastes at the door and focus on storytelling technique and writing knowhow. A superbly written story shouldn't be dismissed because of simple personal tastes, not in a challenge, IMHO. Punctuation and grammar are also deal-breakers for me. Of course there are always exceptions, and the enjoyment of a story is paramount, but for me that goes hand-in-hand with correct storytelling/technique (something deep in me cringes whenever I feel technical aspects are off and it doesn't let me enjoy it, no matter how great the concept), so my heart is rarely divided on the assessment of a story. As with everybody, I'm a sucker for good twists though, so there's more leeway there , but overall, a good execution merits more than a nifty idea to me. That notion kinda leads my voting most of the times.

 

[Parson]

My voting style is pretty much the opposite of @Ihe. For me the story is the real thing. The mistakes have to be glaring for me to discount a story, except for not following genre or theme. If the story does not follow the genre or theme (as I understand them) it's a non-started for a vote from me.

 

[Joshua Jones]

I am still pretty new to this forum, so I hesitate to say much, but two questions come to mind from this discussion. First, what definition are we using for good voter turnout? Unfortunately, 100% seems to be a pipe dream, and if we had 42 votes to 47 participants, that is an 89% voting rate. Given the last US election drew a 58% turnout, I think we are doing well. And yes, I understand that non-participants are voting, but I would suspect that we are above 58% in participant voting. So, what would be a "good enough" number?

My second question is, if we believe there is a problem, do we think improving this turnout would warrant some research? Not some elaborate double blind study or anything, but maybe an informal, anonymous poll (assuming such a thing is possible on this forum) about why people don't vote, to see what the actual reasons are. It would be great if there was an "other" field as well which would allow people to type in a response if the listed options don't fit. Then, armed with actual information, we could have an informed discussion on the matter.

I believe I have always voted (I may have missed one when I was out of town without internet access), but I will put out my challenges regarding voting. Sometimes, it is hard just to narrow down one, because there are so many which are exceptional. In the last 75, for example, my finalists were all so close, I almost rolled a die to figure out who to vote for. This, of course, is a good problem; I hope it becomes even more difficult as time goes on. The other one is simple time. My usual process is to go through all of the stories and copy and paste onto a word document the ones which stand out to me (my shortlisted ones), then narrow down to 3-5 the best of this group, trying to include all the available genres if possible (my finalists). Then, I pick one to vote for. This is not too bad for the 75s (a couple hours and I usually have it), but for the 300s, it can take several hours to go through them all. Again, this is kind of a good problem, because the more stories we have, the longer it takes, but it is a barrier.

Anyway, those are my humble thoughts. As made the suggestion, I would be willing to tabulate the results if we decide to use that questionnaire idea (though I don't have the foggiest idea how to make it in the first place...)

 

[nixie]

People are always going to miss deadline it happens, things get in the way, we also get votes from non entrants. We do have people who enter on a regular basis but rarely or never vote, I find that unfair most people take the time to read all the entries and some go the extra mile and give excellent reviews. When you enter you expect your entry to be read and hopefully get a mention or vote, now my personal opinion is you should return the favour.
We aren't going to penalise anyone for not voting it wouldn't be fair but if you have no intention of voting why enter.

 

[Danny McG]