Voting and the challenges

For me it is also a question of time. It takes quite a while to get throught all the stories, because they don't always make sense on the first read, and I am also a slow reader.

It is funny how modern life, with all that time saving technology, has given us less time than ever...
 
An anology for your consideration ..

I was, for many years, a dedicated fisherman. Those who participate in this will know the long hours/days/weeks where you carefully bait and cast but get nothing.
You contemplate giving it up as being pointless, then you get a little twitch (a honourable mention) on your line.

Eagerly you try again with renewed interest, occasionally then you land a fish (one vote) and consider your time and patience has been validated. Sometimes you catch two or three (excellent day) and regard with envy those who gain the most catches and win the accolades.

Does this post have a point? I don't know because I've started rambling and what I was gonna say has got lost between brain and fingers hahaha sorry.
I'm sure there's a message in all this somewhere :LOL::love::p:whistle:
 
In case anyone is wondering why this matter has been raised at this time, it's down to me and my concerns.

As those who read my report in April on last year's 75 Worder figures may recall, I was -- as ever -- concerned at the number of people who took part in the Challenges but then didn't vote. To quote from my post [with bolding slightly changed] for the benefit of those who didn't read it then or have forgotten:

The number of votes cast was up from last year’s figure of 529 with 603 votes, but that was wholly due to the fact we had three votes apiece in April’s Challenge. Without that extra, we’d have hit a grim low of 507. April still managed (just) to give us more voters than entrants, but it was the only month to do so, and in both May and September we had an alarming entrant-vote gap of 10. Those figures would have been far worse had it not been for those members who voted in months when they hadn’t entered the Challenge, giving us 39 "extra" votes over the year. Our thanks are due to each of those voting heroes, and most especially to DEO, nixie and Suzanne (the former crystal haven in case the change of name escaped anyone!) who each voted a wonderful three times without taking part in that particular Challenge.

Regrettably, those extra votes are far outweighed by the disappointing 110 missing votes, where members who took part in a Challenge didn’t vote in it. Unforeseen circumstances can crop up, of course, and no one is going to be lambasted for occasionally forgetting what date it is and missing the last day for voting, especially if they're new to the Challenge or not taking part regularly. Real life intervenes and we all accept that. But it horrified me to see that one member entered no fewer than eight Challenges last year without making a single valid vote; another member missed six votes, two other members five each, and others missed three and four Challenges. With all due respect to those involved, that is rather taking forgetfulness to new heights.

That was for 2016-17. I only started keeping the vote tallies with effect from April 2015, so I can't immediately produce a table which might show whether things are getting worse or better, but in 2015-16 some 85 members took part in Challenges without voting from a total of 573 entries, so just shy of 15% of entrants failed to vote; 2016-7 the figures were 110 and 580 respectively, so just about 19%; so far this year the figures are 44 and 309 entries, so 14%. The entrant-voting gap this year (April-Oct) has been 9, 2, 3, 6, 8, 6, 10 so only two months which were reasonably OK. In April, with its lost 9 out of 44 entries, and October, with 10 missing votes out of 46 entries, over a fifth of entrants didn't vote.

What prompted my concerns now, however, is the guy who'd not made one valid vote last year -- which was, incidentally, mirrored by him in the 300s, too. He has continued to enter the Challenges without once voting this year. I raised that fact in the Staff Room. While we were trying to decide what, if anything, we could do about this, the mods' discussion morphed into a general talk, hence this thread.


As to why some members don't vote, as has been mentioned, no doubt some forget, some don't have time despite the best of intentions, some get to the last day and then can't be bothered. (I have noticed, though, that some who miss a Challenge in which they have entered, subsequently vote in a Challenge in which they've not taken part, which does help even things out over the year.) Perhaps a few entrants might be worried about how to choose a winner, in which case I'd hope they take part in the Discussion threads to see that there is no real mystique to it -- vote for the story you like best.

Very often newcomers to the Challenges don't vote, and that could well be down to not grasping when or how voting happens, though perhaps some come to the site in a frenzy of wanting to participate in everything but then find something else shiny and go elsewhere before voting starts, but I rather suspect some others just don't give a damn.

We've no intention of naming and shaming in public. We've no intention of penalising those who forget to vote on odd occasions. (And to be honest, we've no wish to make more work for ourselves in doing complicated things with removing stories and reallocating votes!) But if anyone thinks that participating without voting isn't important, well, I can only repeat what I said in April:

Chrons as a whole depends on reciprocity. In the writing forums, that’s most obviously seen in Critiques: we seek help/advice, and in return we help/advise others where we can. But it also applies here in the Challenges. We want stories – the more the merrier. But we also need voters. To regularly enter the Challenges without voting is effectively taking from the forum and other members, without giving back.

We've started to introduce reminders in threads which entrants will presumably be watching, and reminders by PM could well help with those who genuinely forget or don't know what day voting takes place. Meantime, perhaps those entrant-members who have missed voting in the past can make a point of voting early rather than leaving it to the last minute when real life might get in the way.


As for those who vote without entering the Challenges, Chris usually mentions you in the Discussion thread in the last hours before voting closes. Last year, I produced a list of those helpful members so they could be named and honoured and I'll do the same at the end of this year. We are inordinately grateful to you all. We don't expect it of anyone, though, and this thread is not aimed at making anyone feel guilty for not helping out in this way. I've not voted in the Challenges I've missed, because the reasons which on occasion have stopped me entering have also prevented me finding the time and energy to read the stories and vote. If you can vote without entering, please do, but don't worry if you can't.
 
I disagree about this looking like a shame-thread. I don't see how it is shaming to discuss ways to get people to vote and to recognize that it IS unfair for everyone else when someone enters and doesn't vote REPEATEDLY/REGULARLY. This isn't about the one-off voting absences. And no one's finger pointing at anyone in particular; as far as I've seen, the discussion has been civil throughout.

I was an offender a few times in the not-too-distant past, I acknowledged it, and then decided to not enter the following challenges because I knew I probably wouldn't be able to vote (I've entered less challenges as of late because of this). It's just common courtesy. If I just want to practice writing, there are many other ways to do it, privately and in the rest of the forum.

I also think the number of voters does matter. More votes and mentions all around mean a better chance for entrants to get feedback and encouragement.

Obviously, we don't want to force anyone to vote, and I understand there always are justified absences, but everyone knows their schedules best, so being a frequent offender can be easily resolved by the entrants themselves, as I did (or tried to ;)).

And finally, I'll say that Chronner-centered issues are, well, about Chronners. Which means someone will always feel alluded to, but that isn't necessarily shaming. How can we, as a forum, try to improve Chronner attitude/behaviour/voting habits if we can't talk about it? One cannot talk about improvement without acknowledging a flaw first! I've been a repeat-offender myself :notworthy:, and do feel alluded to in the discussion, but not shamed, because I understand the logic of it and I agree with it. This is not about attacking anyone in particular, but trying to improve a forum procedure and make it more fair for everyone involved, so I actually think this thread is a very positive one.

EDIT: I didn't see the above post. TJ said it all with more data and authority.
 
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Interesting point, @The Judge, about new people often not voting. I cannot speak for others, but I almost didn't vote in my first couple entries because I thought the shortlist was necessary. I love mentions as much as the next, but I wonder if we could increase new entrant voting by making it clear that shortlists are optional?
 
It's fine to just choose the story that appeals to us most, without having to analyze it.

Yes, for all my background in literature, I'm very much a vote-from-the-heart person in these challenges, which is also why it's very rare for a shortlist to appear from me. If something resonates with me, for whatever reason, it becomes my vote. I actually sometimes find it hard to use all three votes in the 300!
 
I love mentions as much as the next, but I wonder if we could increase new entrant voting by making it clear that shortlists are optional?
I've been wondering if we needed a Newbie Mentor who could officially welcome new entrants to the Challenge with a PM, pointing them in the direction of the Discussion thread and confirming when voting starts and ends and how we love seeing shortlists but they aren't necessary etc. However, without wanting to get the violins out and have you all weeping in the aisles about our workload, it does mean yet one more thing for us mods to do.

Plus, because some newbies turn out to be one-timers who never interact or return, the NM might feel the PMs to be the equivalent of spitting in the wind, so he/she would have to be someone with boundless energy and enthusiasm, untainted by cynicism. Which qualities are, of course, evident in abundance in the Staff Room... *cough* (Well, they are if we're dealing with tea and cake. :D)
 
I've been wondering if we needed a Newbie Mentor who could officially welcome new entrants to the Challenge with a PM, pointing them in the direction of the Discussion thread and confirming when voting starts and ends and how we love seeing shortlists but they aren't necessary etc. However, without wanting to get the violins out and have you all weeping in the aisles about our workload, it does mean yet one more thing for us mods to do.

Plus, because some newbies turn out to be one-timers who never interact or return, the NM might feel the PMs to be the equivalent of spitting in the wind, so he/she would have to be someone with boundless energy and enthusiasm, untainted by cynicism. Which qualities are, of course, evident in abundance in the Staff Room... *cough* (Well, they are if we're dealing with tea and cake. :D)
About how many newbies are we looking at in a given month? If it isn't too many, I may be able to help out... And I won't even demand a firstborn sacrifice!
 
The number of newbies varies. We've had as many as 10 in one month, and as few as none at all. The average is probably around four, I imagine.

But while it's very kind of you to offer, you're still relatively new to the Challenges yourself, and I wonder if any PM is best coming from someone who's been doing the Challenges a little longer. We'll have a think about the idea generally in the Staff Room, anyway, as it's not something I've raised there before and I was rather thinking out loud in my other post.


Meanwhile, if there are any other relative newcomers to the Challenges involved in the thread, would a PM of this kind have been welcomed by you, or the opposite?
 
The number of newbies varies. We've had as many as 10 in one month, and as few as none at all. The average is probably around four, I imagine.

But while it's very kind of you to offer, you're still relatively new to the Challenges yourself, and I wonder if any PM is best coming from someone who's been doing the Challenges a little longer. We'll have a think about the idea generally in the Staff Room, anyway, as it's not something I've raised there before and I was rather thinking out loud in my other post.


Meanwhile, if there are any other relative newcomers to the Challenges involved in the thread, would a PM of this kind have been welcomed by you, or the opposite?
Fair enough; feel free to let me know if there is something I can help with.

Btw, I would have been happy with such a PM.
 
I've only not given a short list a few times. Once or twice because I was feeling under the weather, and once, because... well... frankly, I didn't feel very many deserved it. Mean, I know... but as I recall, it wasn't really the quality of writing (although there were a few stories I couldn't understand), but a failure of many to reach the theme.
 
I work nights and have spotty Internet coverage and have been fighting off a long term bronchial infection due to allergy and asthma complications. But every month I intend to vote, and make a list, and try to vote. Sometimes this succeeds in actually working. Sometimes it doesn't. For instance this is the third go I've given to a three hundred vote. It actually worked today. But sometimes it's because I've been thinking about voting, get on, then fall asleep. Then I truely think I have, but then I realize when I've gone through the poll list there's no bolded vote visible. But that is usually sadly after the fact. Sometimes two or three days after if it's been a rush week and I've been sleeping every second I'm not working, because of another infection.
( This never used to be a problem before my cat was stolen. The little baggage would catslap me across the nose if I ever dared to fall asleep in "his" chair instead of making a pillow of myself on the cot for his highness' napping comfort. That way I would immediately know I hadn't finished up instead of dreaming that I had. Quite useful my poor lostboy.)
The pings never get up on my alert status list, so they don't help with it.
I would not be amiss to signing up for a text alert or email alert though, if that were possible? If it weren't more of a bother on your end. You understand that an onsite message is only useful for an alert if I've managed to actually haul my skivving self onsite to receive it.
Or perhaps a countdown on the main page or upon the writing challenge discussion page header?
I need to nap now. Feeling a bit wheezy and sore chested.
 
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As a newbie to this section of the forum a PM would have been very welcome. I’m still finding my feet 2 months in and i’m still unsure what the protocols are. I’m just seeing what others do and following suit and hoping I’m being correct.

To be open with you I’ve now been a member for a few years and wasn’t even aware of this section until recently.

Have you considered a PM to all members when it comes time to vote on the 75 and 300 worders? In all the years I’ve been a member I don’t recall any correspondence from the mods. I for one would welcome more information from the mods. The chrons is a fabulous forum and I’m sure others would contribute more if they were aware of the writing challenges.
 
I think that's a good idea - a PM to all members at the beginning of every challenge, and another as voting is to begin! :)
 

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