Voting and the challenges

[mosaix]

My second question is, if we believe there is a problem, do we think improving this turnout would warrant some research? Not some elaborate double blind study or anything, but maybe an informal, anonymous poll (assuming such a thing is possible on this forum) about why people don't vote, to see what the actual reasons are. It would be great if there was an "other" field as well which would allow people to type in a response if the listed options don't fit. Then, armed with actual information, we could have an informed discussion on the matter.

You mean ask people to vote for why they don’t vote, Joshua?

 

[Joshua Jones]

Well, when you put it THAT way .

My real point was that we shouldn't speculate as to why people don't vote, but try to find out directly why before attempting fixes that may or may not address the real problem. And, we need to decide if it is realistic to get the vote participation up much higher than it already is.

I just thought a poll may be a little better than PMing people "Hey, you slacker and disbeliever in the democratic process; why aren't you voting!?", but there probably is a better way than asking people to vote for why they don't vote.

 

[TitaniumTi]

I think it would be a shame if people were deterred from entering because they didn't feel confident to vote. If we want more people to vote (or to enter), perhaps we should post a notification elsewhere (in General Book Discussion, for example) letting people know when voting (or the challenge itself) is open.

On a similar theme, there are still a few hours to vote in the October 2017 Photo Challemge (and there's a tie).
Here's the Poll.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

My real point was that we shouldn't speculate as to why people don't vote, but try to find out directly why

That was the point of this thread . . . or at least the hope . . . that people would let us know why they didn't vote.

 

[chrispenycate]

It is quite a lot of work reading, classing and eliminating stories - especially with the diversity in styles and interpretations. I don't understand the people who can vote minutes after the thread is closed. I assume they've been preparing massively in advance. Which means the last-second maniacs get less analysis than the 'within an hour of the thread opening' specialists. I don't see any way of reducing the lack of self confidence problem, but really, the number who fail to vote is not enormous. The optimum solution would be to encourage more members who haven't participated in the writing side to join in with the voting ( the vast majority of those who vote without contributing a story are contributers to previous challenges, or those who had failed to post theirs in time).

 

[Danny McG]

I didn't realise this had been discussed in depth several years ago. Clearly an ongoing problem with little hope of a resolution.
Voting In The Challenges

 

[Jo Zebedee]

That was the point of this thread . . . or at least the hope . . . that people would let us know why they didn't vote.

I vote when I enter (which is rare for these days, I just have so little time) but not when I don't. Why not? Time again. Say 45 75 word entries - half an hour to read through. Then a reread of those shortlisted, maybe another quarter of an hour and then a post and vote. Perhaps an hour all
In. Not much - but forum time comes from my leisure time and suddenly an hour seems quite a lot....

 

[Cathbad]

Having been reading this thread, I can't help but worry that this discussion itself will affect voting negatively.

 

[Alexa]

I had no idea I had the right to vote in these challenges. Maybe because I got kicked out from the writing section by somebody rude and who behaved like this forum was his own. I knew better, but still had no pleasure to come back in here for a long time.

I hope you all write something intestesting to read. I may be not a writer or an aspiring one, but I like good writing, so I plan to finally use my voting right.

 

[Abernovo]

I had no idea I had the right to vote in these challenges. Maybe because I got kicked out from the writing section by somebody rude and who behaved like this forum was his own. I knew better, but still had no pleasure to come back in here for a long time.

I hope you all write something intestesting to read. I may be not a writer or an aspiring one, but I like good writing, so I plan to finally use my voting right.

Do, please, join in and vote. Entering the challenges is entirely up to yourself.
And, even if you don't write, your input to writing discussions, as a reader, can be equally as valid. Not to mention immensely helpful. You belong here, and have the same right to participate, as anyone else.

I'm sporadic on my entries, these days. If I enter, I always try to vote - internet connection issues did prevent voting a couple of times in the past. I've also voted some months when not entering the challenges, on a few occasions.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I'll have to couch what I say carefully, here, because this issue my biggest disappointment in the Chronosphere and I love that @nixie brought it up. It makes me irrationally incendiary when people enter and don't vote - and there are frequent 'abstainers'... It makes me even more angry when I vote for them, or others have, and makes me wish I could retract.

As far as the argument of 'I'm so busy, I forgot' goes, I wonder how difficult it is bearing in mind the amount of days we have to vote, and how complicated our lives really have become. On my phone I have a recurring reminder each month to vote. It pops up once, and then again 2 days later. I was in the Bush in West Africa in Jan 2013 and still managed to vote on the 300 that month.

As one of the resident misanthropes, I feel about the challenge entries the way I sometimes do about crits; you want someone to read your story, someone to say 'hey, you're okay,' but you don't give anything back? Nah, bad form, bad bad form.

It bugs me to the point that I have recently started voting in the 100 anon challenge even though I never participate.

Regarding The Boss's post in changes to Chrons in Anouncenment - maybe voting time could be splashed all over the front end when that time of the month comes. Might help get more votes.

I'll have you know that I look at the submissions -- well, the titles -- more than 120 hours before the poll closes. (I have to, otherwise I can't copy them -- and type in the authors' usernames -- into that self-same poll.)

You know, I always think of your Herculean task when I chose my title, and try to get it to the shortest possible length it can be. You don't know how tortured I was when I won a recent 300 with 'Oh, Jump and I'll Come to you, My Love' However, I was delighted with 'Bag Lady' which has the same amout of characters as 'untitled'.

pH

 

[Jo Zebedee]

@Phyrebrat - because I have a diary that deals with myriad people's needs and desires. Because tomorrow I have my mum to take to a hospital appointment and my kid on Tuesday. Because I have a work list as long as my arm this week after taking a much-needed week off. Because I have (selfishly) to find time to write a new story (by hand since my laptop time is all work). Because, frankly, putting another must-do in my diary adds not-needed stress to an already stressful life where I try to meet all obligations and angst about those I don't.

Your priority is voting and so it goes in your diary. I salute (and envy) you. Sadly I can't move for priorities even ones I'd like to do (because I like reading and voting).

This feels like a shame-thread. On a forum that's supposed to be a hobby and fun. And I hate that.

Also - a general note - why does it even matter how many vote? A win across 20 engaged, thoughtful, voters is a fantastic win. Why obsess about the number of votes but celebrate the thoughtfulness of them?

 

[Cathbad]

This feels like a shame-thread.

Yes, I was getting that feeling, too.

Also - a general note - why does it even matter how many vote? A win across 20 engaged, thoughtful, voters is a fantastic win. Why obsess about the number of votes but celebrate the thoughtfulness of them?

 

[Phyrebrat]

@Phyrebrat - because I have a diary that deals with myriad people's needs and desires. Because tomorrow I have my mum to take to a hospital appointment and my kid on Tuesday. Because I have a work list as long as my arm this week after taking a much-needed week off. Because I have (selfishly) to find time to write a new story (by hand since my laptop time is all work). Because, frankly, putting another must-do in my diary adds not-needed stress to an already stressful life where I try to meet all obligations and angst about those I don't.

Your priority is voting and so it goes in your diary. I salute (and envy) you. Sadly I can't move for priorities even ones I'd like to do (because I like reading and voting).

This feels like a shame-thread. On a forum that's supposed to be a hobby and fun. And I hate that.

Also - a general note - why does it even matter how many vote? A win across 20 engaged, thoughtful, voters is a fantastic win. Why obsess about the number of votes but celebrate the thoughtfulness of them?

You've already said you rarely enter, and when you do, you vote, so there's no need to get so defensive. Why does my post warrant such a response from you?

If this comes across as shaming - to those who repeatedly do not vote - then good; I think they should be ashamed. A lot of effort goes into this challenge not just by the participants and people who vote, but by the staff; every entry has to be word-counted, the polls set up, or perhaps they have more time than the rest of us?

This is a fun site, it is a supportive site. I think support comes in many forms. Like voting for example.

pH

 

[TheDustyZebra]

It is quite a lot of work reading, classing and eliminating stories - especially with the diversity in styles and interpretations. I don't understand the people who can vote minutes after the thread is closed. I assume they've been preparing massively in advance. Which means the last-second maniacs get less analysis than the 'within an hour of the thread opening' specialists. I don't see any way of reducing the lack of self confidence problem, but really, the number who fail to vote is not enormous. The optimum solution would be to encourage more members who haven't participated in the writing side to join in with the voting ( the vast majority of those who vote without contributing a story are contributers to previous challenges, or those who had failed to post theirs in time).

As a dedicated last-minute maniac, I'm pondering making the suggestion that we lock the voting thread for 24 hours to make people analyze the later stories.

And don't try to persuade me that writing sooner would work just as well for me. I'm not having it. Blasphemy.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Maybe because I got kicked out from the writing section by somebody rude and who behaved like this forum was his own.

I wish you had reported this, because whoever he was of course he didn't have the right. No one gets kicked out of just one part of the forums. If their behavior is so bad that they're getting kicked out, they're banned from the entire site. Since this obviously didn't happen to you, you still had access to the writing section, and whoever indicated otherwise was way out of line.

*****

It's easy to see how in any given month between the time someone submits a story and the time it comes to vote their life could become infinitely busier and more complicated. It happens. That's life. And it is nothing to feel guilty about, or for others to blame. And for those who don't submit a story, it's a generous gesture on their part if they vote anyway, but nothing that is expected.

But when it happens on a regular basis -- always time to submit a story, never (or almost never) time to vote -- that doesn't seem very fair to me.

Sure, it's just for fun and all a game, but games are more enjoyable when everyone feels there is fair play on the part of all the participants. When someone enters a story, it's like saying, "Please read my story and consider voting for it" but if the corollary is "I'm not ever going to find the time to read any of yours, though" then where is the fairness in that?

If it's really that lots of people lose track of the time . . . and I can understand how that could happen for those who don't visit the site as often as some of us do . . . maybe we do need a way of reminding those who would appreciate some help remembering that the deadline is approaching.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

You've already said you rarely enter, and when you do, you vote, so there's no need to get so defensive. Why does my post warrant such a response from you?

If this comes across as shaming - to those who repeatedly do not vote - then good; I think they should be ashamed. A lot of effort goes into this challenge not just by the participants and people who vote, but by the staff; every entry has to be word-counted, the polls set up, or perhaps they have more time than the rest of us?

This is a fun site, it is a supportive site. I think support comes in many forms. Like voting for example.

pH

I got grouchy at the theme (throughout the thread) of setting what people should do. Apologies if it felt targeted at you - that wasn't my intent.
People post and vote for all sorts of reasons. It matters a lot to you obviously but that doesn't mean others have to feel like that.
Some enter for fun and writing practice and might not care about the outcome. Some are shy and don't feel able to choose who should win. Some don't give a stuff. That's their perogative and shaming people because others (not just you) feel that's the wrong thing to do doesn't sit well with me.

To come back to my last point, though - why does the number of voters matter? Does a larger number add more validity?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

At the very least, a larger number of voters usually means that more people receive votes/mentions. Everyone enjoys a little encouragement. Why else do we have the votes in the first place, or the discussion threads?

Perhaps people find voting too much work because they put too much pressure on themselves. No one has to go through a long process of eliminating stories before they vote. It's fine to just choose the story that appeals to us most, without having to analyze it. Plenty of people vote that way already, I'm sure. Those who want to be more organized and thorough about it, that's up to them. Receiving a vote from someone who we know takes more time over the decision is gratifying, but I don't think there is anyone who doesn't appreciate a vote or a mention, no matter how it's arrived at.

 

[Ursa major]

And don't try to persuade me that writing sooner would work just as well for me. I'm not having it. Blasphemy.

Only blasphemy...?

It's far worse than that!

 

[Phyrebrat]

In the grand scheme of things, you’re right @Jo Zebedee the amount of voters doesn’t really matter (I do the challenges to improve my skills, for example, rather than to win), but I think it’s bad form to miss the votes when you enter. Not once of course, but often.

It’s as Teresa so succinctly puts upthread; I’m going to enter, expect you to read my story, but I’m not going to make the effort back. It’s not the vote itself, per se but the engagement.

I accept people have busy lives - we all do, really - but 75 words? Is it really that much of a sacrifice once a month?

That then brings me onto people like Victoria, Cathbad, Parson and Perp who in addition to voting, spend time on their mini-reviews.

We all know what a lonely little void writing can be, and we’re always trying to increase the numbers of challenge participants; we’ve focused in this thread on how lack of confidence might result in absentee voters but what about the positive focus of receiving a vote, several, many? That could really make a difference to someone’s motivation.

I suppose voting could be made anonymous but I’m not sure if that would make a difference.

pH