Indiana Jones And The Dial of Destiny (2023)

I read that this movie cost nearly $300 million to make. Add onto it the advertising, you're probably looking at a $billion just to break even. Surely that is not sustainable?
They will claim they made the money overseas.
Or they lied about the true costs. Hollywood Accounting means lying about finances.
It doesn't make any business sense at all that costs keep going higher and higher and viewer apathy is growing and growing. But they have corporate and government subsidies so they can keep it going as long as they want to.
No other business operates like this--especially with their desire to centralize content and reduce creative variety.

Phoebe Waller Bridge has no chance of being a big star in an action adventure series. She's another Rey Skywalker. That's the gist of it.

If they wanted popularity and customer satisfaction they would be thinking traditionally.
Looking for a new Errol Flynn or something.

They ain't looking for him.
 
I had a trouble with Temple of Doom as well. I think I'm happier with the magic MacGuffins of the 1st and 3rd than the magic hand pulling out someone's beating heart. In fact, I liked the basic moral of the 1st and 3rd. When you chase after magic MacGuffins you may regret the results.

And don't think about the ending of the first one too hard. [It is still too soon to talk about the ending openly, right]
Why are there magical angry ghosts in a box that contains the ten commandments?
Why did the Germans open it up at all? Apparently they could carry it in front of their army and win. No opening required.
Why was Indy there tied to a stake. That was rather nice of the Germans.

Because in a film like that there has to be inexplicable magic Mcguffins , it expected and is comes with the Territory .

Im pretty good at spotting holes in films but I enjoy the I tend overlook them if the films is entertaining. :)

That said though are very good point about Indian Jones films. . Temple of Doom the Villain played by Amrish Puri was Petty cool villain and if they ever did a a Conan movie with Thoth Amon as the Villain , he would spot on perfect to play that role . the man was a terrific actor.
 
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They will claim they made the money overseas.
Or they lied about the true costs. Hollywood Accounting means lying about finances.
It doesn't make any business sense at all that costs keep going higher and higher and viewer apathy is growing and growing. But they have corporate and government subsidies so they can keep it going as long as they want to.
No other business operates like this--especially with their desire to centralize content and reduce creative variety.

Phoebe Waller Bridge has no chance of being a big star in an action adventure series. She's another Rey Skywalker. That's the gist of it.

If they wanted popularity and customer satisfaction they would be thinking traditionally.
Looking for a new Errol Flynn or something.

They ain't looking for him.
Basically all manufacturing operates based on government subsidies.
As Jack Welsh, CEO of General Electric so succinctly described in the 1990s, the ideal for manufacturing is to build all factories on barges and move those barges to where the subsidies are and only until the subsidies run out, then let then next round of subsidies bidding dictate where the barge is dragged next. In the US, states regularly bid against each other for the amounts of hand-outs to give to major corporations building factories.

 
Basically all manufacturing operates based on government subsidies.
As Jack Welsh, CEO of General Electric so aptly described in the 1990s, the ideal for manufacturing is to build all factories on barges and move those barges to where the subsidies are and only until the subsidies run out, then let then next round of subsidies bidding dictate where the barge is dragged next. In the US, states regularly bid against each other for the amounts of hand-outs to give to major corporations building factories.
Yeah but GE is a multi-national company. If we are talking about typical American businesses that are family-owned and not tied to international Rockefeller-style trade, they do not operate from subsidies. And movie companies are really small operations once you take out the international money trader.
Hammer was a family-run business. AIP was a family business. Disney was a family business originally. A movie studio is actually a really tiny operation. It's basically a theater troupe and stages. Charles Pierce was a one-man operation---based outside of Hollywood--and his film Bootleggers 1975 was one of the biggest indie box office hits of all time--but mainly due to its popularity in the South US. A very concentrated targeted market.

Hollywood, due to its ever-expanding international focus-creates this massive bloated ponzi scheme.

Until recently--Annheisher-Busch, Target etc-is following the Hollywood lead by sacrificing their base audience--no company would do that-but they are also multi-national companies--no business is going to risk alienating its customer if they depend on the customer for survival.
Now it happens all the time--but it's mostly the big companies. The small ones cannot afford to go against the motto "the customer is always right."
 
They will claim they made the money overseas.
Or they lied about the true costs. Hollywood Accounting means lying about finances.
It doesn't make any business sense at all that costs keep going higher and higher and viewer apathy is growing and growing. But they have corporate and government subsidies so they can keep it going as long as they want to.
No other business operates like this--especially with their desire to centralize content and reduce creative variety.

Phoebe Waller Bridge has no chance of being a big star in an action adventure series. She's another Rey Skywalker. That's the gist of it.

If they wanted popularity and customer satisfaction they would be thinking traditionally.
Looking for a new Errol Flynn or something.

They ain't looking for him.

They might want ot keep in side the trajectory of the Terminator franchise. After the 3rd film , nothing worked.
 
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Yeah but GE is a multi-national company. If we are talking about typical American businesses that are family-owned and not tied to international Rockefeller-style trade, they do not operate from subsidies. And movie companies are really small operations once you take out the international money trader.
Hammer was a family-run business. AIP was a family business. Disney was a family business originally. A movie studio is actually a really tiny operation. It's basically a theater troupe and stages. Charles Pierce was a one-man operation---based outside of Hollywood--and his film Bootleggers 1975 was one of the biggest indie box office hits of all time--but mainly due to its popularity in the South US. A very concentrated targeted market.

Hollywood, due to its ever-expanding international focus-creates this massive bloated ponzi scheme.

Until recently--Annheisher-Busch, Target etc-is following the Hollywood lead by sacrificing their base audience--no company would do that-but they are also multi-national companies--no business is going to risk alienating its customer if they depend on the customer for survival.
Now it happens all the time--but it's mostly the big companies. The small ones cannot afford to go against the motto "the customer is always right."
Oh, I thought we were talking about 300 million dollar budget blockbuster movies. Studio movies follow international subsidies.

Many independent movies follow local subsidies. Watch the end credits of your favorite "independent" movie and look for the labels for the various government subsidy agencies. Here is a small sampling...
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images

georgia-film-tax-credit-image.png

492px-Irish_Film_Board_1.jpg


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1325873_bfiscreentalkslogoarticle_36412.jpg
 
Oh, I thought we were talking about 300 million dollar budget blockbuster movies. Studio movies follow international subsidies.

Many independent movies follow local subsidies. Watch the end credits of your favorite "independent" movie and look for the labels for the various government subsidy agencies. Here is a small sampling...
CFC-final-horizontal-color.png

images

georgia-film-tax-credit-image.png

492px-Irish_Film_Board_1.jpg


0_Screenshot-2022-07-05-at-134806.png


1325873_bfiscreentalkslogoarticle_36412.jpg

I don't think films should allowed to have star subsides of any kind.
 
Oh, I thought we were talking about 300 million dollar budget blockbuster movies. Studio movies follow international subsidies.

Many independent movies follow local subsidies. Watch the end credits of your favorite "independent" movie and look for the labels for the various government subsidy agencies. Here is a small sampling...
CFC-final-horizontal-color.png

images

georgia-film-tax-credit-image.png

492px-Irish_Film_Board_1.jpg


0_Screenshot-2022-07-05-at-134806.png


1325873_bfiscreentalkslogoarticle_36412.jpg
There are no independent studios anymore. Nothing on the radar. They are all tied to the centralized media system. They all connect to the same gatekeepers--Netflix etc--that's one reason why there is scant thematic variety and you never hear about a Charles Pierce success story. You could say he was subsidized too by private companies-that's what film investment is-but they expected a profit--not customer alienation propaganda. A local government subsidy is basically a throwaway these days.
Look at the negative reaction to Indiana Jones--they don't care because there's no other show in town.
There's no competition. Before Covid-19, revival movie houses were reporting that Disney was cancelling all showings of Fox movies like ALIEN--the speculation was that they were seeking to increase theater screens for their new product. So more of less.

As long as they know that most people have only the choice to watch it or something owned by one of their allies--that's good enough for them.
They want to preach--if you don't want to listen-that's fine--as long as you can't comfortably distract yourself (and more importantly--your children) from the message.
 
Whats most difficult about this last film is that it is the last Indiana Jones film. it end of a film era. :(
 
Whats most difficult about this last film is that it is the last Indiana Jones film. it end of a film era. :(
And I thought that Crystal Skull was the "Last Indiana Jones film" ever.

Time will tell. How long before a reboot starring Timothée Chalamet or Tequan Richmond.
Maybe it'll be set in Afghanistan or Iraq and some mystical artifact there...

NOOOOO - Movie producers those are not production suggestions!!!

 
And I thought that Crystal Skull was the "Last Indiana Jones film" ever.

Time will tell. How long before a reboot starring Timothée Chalamet or Tequan Richmond.
Maybe it'll be set in Afghanistan or Iraq and some mystical artifact there...

NOOOOO - Movie producers those are not production suggestions!!!

Yes, @BAYLOR you've obviously never been to any music concerts that were billed as "The Final Tour"!

I hand thought of any of that. My bad . :(
 
I hadn't thought of any of that. My bad . :(
I don't want to repeat what I've already posted in several of the threads complaining about cinema films and Hollywood, but it bears repeating that endless sequels and a lack of imagination is really nothing new. How many Frankenstein, Wolfman and Curse of the Mummy films were made? How many Tarzan films were made? We get what we deserve. If we pay to see the film then they will make more of the same. If it is trash, then they will just make more trash. They can do that because it makes them money. You have accountants in charge, not story-tellers. The big difference is when something can't possibly make the kind of money spent but they do so anyway. Wasn't the recent Batgirl film never shown and the money spent reclaimed on insurance? If true, then that is just crazy.
 
I don't want to repeat what I've already posted in several of the threads complaining about cinema films and Hollywood, but it bears repeating that endless sequels and a lack of imagination is really nothing new. How many Frankenstein, Wolfman and Curse of the Mummy films were made? How many Tarzan films were made? We get what we deserve. If we pay to see the film then they will make more of the same. If it is trash, then they will just make more trash. They can do that because it makes them money. You have accountants in charge, not story-tellers. The big difference is when something can't possibly make the kind of money spent but they do so anyway. Wasn't the recent Batgirl film never shown and the money spent reclaimed on insurance? If true, then that is just crazy.


Remakes and a lack of imagination are fine as long as the movie is good. We've been essentially watching 007 go through the same hoops movie after movie, but they remain popular because they are so good. The likes of the 'Carry On' and 'Hammer' films and movies starring comedians like Norman Wisdom and Laurel and Hardy etc were essentially the same thing. But because they gave the audience what they wanted, no one cared about the lack of variety/imagination.

The contrary nature of humans is that we demand something original, but we will usually consume what is familiar. Which is why some truly great movies/games/tv shows slipped under the radar simply because they were too different, or competing against something more familiar/popular.

The problems start when the providers think that the public will buy any old crap simply because it has a known licence attached to it. The Star Wars prequels sucked because the dialogue was terrible, the acting often wooden, the bits that were meant to be funny being anything but and the idea that public buying tickets to watch a science fiction spectacular about Rebels fighting the Empire instead got a storyline about trade embargos. Crystal Skull failed (to an extent) because of ropey CGI and putting Indiana Jones into situations that were either unrealistic or not appropriate for the character. Having said that these movies were commercial successes despite - certainly not because - of these failings. But eventually taking the public for granted will cost cinema, just as Atari found out with the video game crash of the early 80s.

James Bond and Doctor Who have proven that you can continue a franchise successfully without the main lead actor, as long as the story is good and the suspension of disbelief is there. Sean Connery and Roger Moore were completely different styles of actors, but by retaining the music, the atmosphere and all the other trappings of 'Bond', the audience accepted the change of actor without needing an explanation or reality check. Obviously Doctor Who has an explanation for the transformation which helps, and this was fine when moving from Hartnell to Troughton to Pertwee to Baker, as the quality of the acting, storylines and atmosphere was still there. If it feels like Who, then - despite the Doctor having a different appearance - it is Who. The problem comes when the character - rather than the face - of the protagonist changes, or when the writing starts to go downhill. When simply sticking 'Doctor Who' onto any screenplay and expecting it to popular no longer works. Gradually you wear down your audience until the character means nothing to them.

Indiana Jones can continue, and be successful, but it needs a reset. Bring in a new young, fresh actor. Give them a story between 'Young Indiana Jones and' Raiders, or set a story during WWII. Perhaps introduce the character to the audience with face obscure, whip in had, then as he/she raises their face to the screen with the John Williams music blaring out, and the audience will believe it's Indy regardless of their facial appearance. Forget trying to find new scripts, de-aging and CGI to make up for the fact that Harrison is now 80, and get back to the roots of what made Raiders so popular in the first place.
 
I don't want to repeat what I've already posted in several of the threads complaining about cinema films and Hollywood, but it bears repeating that endless sequels and a lack of imagination is really nothing new. How many Frankenstein, Wolfman and Curse of the Mummy films were made? How many Tarzan films were made? We get what we deserve. If we pay to see the film then they will make more of the same. If it is trash, then they will just make more trash. They can do that because it makes them money. You have accountants in charge, not story-tellers. The big difference is when something can't possibly make the kind of money spent but they do so anyway. Wasn't the recent Batgirl film never shown and the money spent reclaimed on insurance? If true, then that is just crazy.

You're correct Dave , Im being naive here . In a few yeas the studio seeing dollar signs will recast, reboot Indiana Jones and people will flock to the cinema ro see them. :(
 
Yeah but look at what happened to Dungeons and Dragons. The director and producer said they liked emasculating the hero. I understand that it has fallen like a rock in box office performance. I wonder how much their decision-making factored into that. It sounds much like what happened to Doc Savage-The Man of Bronze 1975. They sabotaged it because the image of this big strong smart blonde guy saving the world was not well-received by some executives and George Pal was forced to change the film.
If beer companies are making political statements --why would Hollywood be any different? It has always been politically-oriented.
I have said this a million times--if you look at Hollywood productions going back 60 years--you see numerous higher-budgeted films that bombed or never made their money back and they didn't care. They kept making them. And if you watch these films, you scratch your head wondering who the intended audience was for these films.
And how many other businesses have seen their production costs sky-rocket? Even farming out jobs to India has not reduced costs. Hollywood film is getting more expensive--and they are putting fewer movies into more theaters. The Little Mermaid is in 4000 theaters. How many of those theaters are empty?
There is no supply-demand element involved.
Movie 43 would never have been made if there was.
 
Yeah but look at what happened to Dungeons and Dragons. The director and producer said they liked emasculating the hero. I understand that it has fallen like a rock in box office performance. I wonder how much their decision-making factored into that. It sounds much like what happened to Doc Savage-The Man of Bronze 1975. They sabotaged it because the image of this big strong smart blonde guy saving the world was not well-received by some executives and George Pal was forced to change the film.
If beer companies are making political statements --why would Hollywood be any different? It has always been politically-oriented.
I have said this a million times--if you look at Hollywood productions going back 60 years--you see numerous higher-budgeted films that bombed or never made their money back and they didn't care. They kept making them. And if you watch these films, you scratch your head wondering who the intended audience was for these films.
And how many other businesses have seen their production costs sky-rocket? Even farming out jobs to India has not reduced costs. Hollywood film is getting more expensive--and they are putting fewer movies into more theaters. The Little Mermaid is in 4000 theaters. How many of those theaters are empty?
There is no supply-demand element involved.
Movie 43 would never have been made if there was.

The world of Max Headroom made real.
 
Bumping this as it was released at the weekend. Has anyone seen it yet?
 

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