What's up with the Catelyn hatin'? (spoilers)

[DeannaBelle]

I don't hate her either. She did love her family. She was annoying, but many people are annoying.

I hated the way she treated Jon.

I don't like UnCat. She's a different woman. Not very likeable.

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

Sorry to drag up such an old thread, but I found something during my reread of ASOS that reminded me of the 'Catelyn Hatin'. If it's been mentioned before than I apologize. Now I'm not a Catelyn Hater exactly, but she wasn't my favorite character either. This particular quote of hers really irked me though.

We know that she released Jaime in order to get her daughters back, which greatly upset Karstark as well as others. Karstark was upset because Jaime had killed two of his sons, and Catelyn had just set their killer free. Here is a quote from Catelyn later in ASOS when talking to Lord Bolton about Theon Greyjoy being kept as a hostage:

"Hostage?" The word raised Catelyn's hackles. Hostages were oft exchanged. "Lord Bolton, I hope you are not suggesting that we free the man who killed my sons."

Now why is it ok for her to free the man who killed Karstark's sons, but it's not ok to free the man who killed her sons?

 

[Apopas]

Dude, she is the worst kind of a woman. Her whole world is only her family. I know exactly, such a woman in real life. She loses any sense of common logic and justice when it has to do with her children.

 

[vervain_ashe]

It is an old thread, but still warrants continued feedback. My first read, I did like Cat's character. I had convinced myself that regardless of the way she treated Jon, that she was a good wife to her husband and a good mother to her [real] children. Stepmothers oft treat illegitimate or step-children as such as Cat did to Jon. My first take on it was that Martin was just keeping a real-life base to the storyline.

My second, third, and now fourth re-read however, have really changed how I see Cat's character. She is despicable beyond measure. I literally cringe when I read any content that involves her speaking - to anyone - about anything. However, without her, and some of her ridiculous interludes, some of the better story lines could not have come to fruition. Especially Jamie. The story needs Jaime. Once Robb captured him, he was stuck in a cell with no way out, but Robb needed that victory in the Whispering Wood, so that's how Martin gave it to him. Since there was no escaping the cell, it was only logical to send the grieving mother in to set him loose.

Initially, UnCat was such a striking prospect. I had envisioned something entirely different than what we've seen though, and quite honestly, I don't see the relevance of requiring that Stoneheart actually be Cat resurrected. Could it not have been another character. Someone we have not met yet? I know ADWD will yield no answers, but mayhaps we'll know why he chose her later on. I'm just done with her though. She is by far the weakest structural character in the story. Lower than Lord Frey... that's pretty low.

I'll continue with the Catelyn hatin'!

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Well...I wonder if any of you people who hate Catelyn have imagined what *your* mother would do in her shoes? I'm sure you love your mother, but do you honestly think she would do better? I think mine would do worse, but then my mother is more like Cersei.

 

[vervain_ashe]

Well...I wonder if any of you people who hate Catelyn have imagined what *your* mother would do in her shoes? I'm sure you love your mother, but do you honestly think she would do better? I think mine would do worse, but then my mother is more like Cersei.

The most irksome part about Catelyn was not how she treated Jon or how she 'coddled' her children and her memories - which, yes, mothers do. Most mothers anyway. However, when it came to her presence at court, she overstepped her place repeatedly... even when asked not to. By the King himself! She continuously interfered with the work and progress of Robb and his men. As a woman with such a high upbringing in the ways of 'nobility', her antics created a character that was just off. I know Martin has/had his reasons, but that still does not change how loathsome I find her character to be.

But, again, without her, Jaime would still be rotting beneath RiverRun in a deep, dark cell...so there you go.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Well you didn't really answer my question, but anyway...

I don't know why Catelyn is always held to some sort of saintly standard of behavior. Why can't she just be a person who sometimes makes mistakes and sometimes gets it right? We give everyone else the luxury of being human, in fact a big draw of the series for most people is how real and life-like GRRM's characters seem, yet we feign surprise and disdain when one of them, Catelyn, shows signs of being less than angelic. If I was a Freudian I might have some interesting comments, but I'm not and I don't.

Edit: A lot of people throw up the example of her being cruel to Jon, which frankly isn't an example at all. The only less than civil remark she ever made towards him was after Bran's fall. Anyway, I always thought she was uncommonly kind in allowing Jon to stay at all. She would have been well within her rights to send him away. He was a living symbol of her husband being unfaithful. How many women of the real world do you know who would tolerate the child of their husband's extramarital affair to live with them? Do you know of any? I think perhaps not.

 

[Bazza]

As a character, I think GRRM did a very good job with Catelyn. She's a highborn brat who like Apo says thinks of her children first, and everything else second. She stays true to that character through most of the series. As her children get killed off, she falls further and further down irrational paths because she realizes that she is truly helpless in that regard. I mean come on who's ever heard of a rational mother?

My second, third, and now fourth re-read however, have really changed how I see Cat's character. She is despicable beyond measure. I literally cringe when I read any content that involves her speaking - to anyone - about anything. However, without her, and some of her ridiculous interludes, some of the better story lines could not have come to fruition. Especially Jamie. The story needs Jaime. Once Robb captured him, he was stuck in a cell with no way out, but Robb needed that victory in the Whispering Wood, so that's how Martin gave it to him. Since there was no escaping the cell, it was only logical to send the grieving mother in to set him loose.

Initially, UnCat was such a striking prospect. I had envisioned something entirely different than what we've seen though, and quite honestly, I don't see the relevance of requiring that Stoneheart actually be Cat resurrected. Could it not have been another character. Someone we have not met yet? I know ADWD will yield no answers, but mayhaps we'll know why he chose her later on. I'm just done with her though. She is by far the weakest structural character in the story. Lower than Lord Frey... that's pretty low.

Actually I think it'd be more logical for the Imp's knives to successfully free Jaime. You bring up a good point though, why was she chosen as Stoneheart? I don't see anyone else becoming Stoneheart who hates the Lannisters as much as Catelyn does. Also she seems to have a high respect for omens and godly things, perhaps making it easier for the Red God to enter her?

 

[Boaz]

Catelyn and Beric both seem to me to have an urgent need to complete their unfinished business. Upon their deaths, both were desperately desiring to dole out justice to murderers. That is the only thing they have in common... oh, and the fact that they both have red hair... as does Melisandre. Thoros shaves his head so we don't really know about him.

 

[pan naranus]

lets see, smuggling brien, releasing Jamie, making rob so passive in the red wedding (if he serves a crow Ill praise the vintage and have seconds...), and probably dose the only active pseudo rational act in trying to escape it...
I see your point, totally passive and ineffectual in the grate scheme of the plot...

Let me phrase it this way - what had Rob done in that book?