Who is Robbs heir?

[Aegon the Unworthy]

And lastly of course, the piece of meta-thinking that trumps all.....why did George set the scene up and then have it happen off-screen like it did? Give me one solid reason why he would do that if Robb named Jon his heir and I'll step away from this argument.

Here's my theory:

Maybe Robb just did exactly what he said he did, and did it "in secret" because to have Catelyn, from whose viewpoint we learned of this development, present for the signing of the documents would be encouraging a serious nagging from her.

Do you hear that sound? Do ya? Thats the sound of me no longer being able to argue on my own thread.

For me the last book just got renamed a Feast of Crow. Someone pass me the ketchup.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

To Aryaunderfoot with stern love.

That's an insane and foolish so-called theory, you woman. You know nothing because existential quasi-logic in the realm of conspiracy mechanics demands that something involving either cheese and wyverns or incest and wine is involved...unless Aquarius is in the twentieth house and grandma sacrificed two chickens...in which case my calculations of tomfoolery-esque B.S. indicate that un-resolved classified meta-quandaries and a party of gnomes will refute that completely baseless and senseless barrel of poppycock any moment now. And there should be meteors and Mexican food.

 

[Wil]

Smiling - What!?

Arya - I agree with you. Robb was becoming more detached from his mother and was excluded her more and more from his council meetings; he really didn't want her around. She said it herself, "..he prefers the company of his men..." Caitlin was always more concerned with her children's welfare than with being fair (and I don't blame her, it's a mother's instinct kicking in) while Robb was more concerned with being a "fair and honorable" king. I figured Robb just wanted her away (I don't blame him).

I think Robb did exactly what he said he did. In the past he showed great cunning in battle but none in politics. It was his nature not to be deceptive in politics and I'm betting GM stuck to it.

 

[Wil]

p.s. Jon for King of the North! (once the wall is destroyed and his oath is no longer in affect).

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

p.s. Jon for King of the North! (once the wall is destroyed and his oath is no longer in affect).

Sorry to rain on the parade but the oath doesn't have a "Wall clause"

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come

 

[Wil]

Too bad.

Although, as Cercei and Stannis and so many others keep suggesting, with enough money and permission from the church (any church I'm betting), oaths could be "set aside."

 

[Boaz]

WS, good post. But the lines, I shall wear no crown... I shall live and die at my post... for this night and all the nights to come, are also lines that will continue to haunt Jon.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

To Aryaunderfoot with stern love.

That's an insane and foolish so-called theory, you woman. You know nothing because existential quasi-logic in the realm of conspiracy mechanics demands that something involving either cheese and wyverns or incest and wine is involved...unless Aquarius is in the twentieth house and grandma sacrificed two chickens...in which case my calculations of tomfoolery-esque B.S. indicate that un-resolved classified meta-quandaries and a party of gnomes will refute that completely baseless and senseless barrel of poppycock any moment now. And there should be meteors and Mexican food.

Too funny.

And there should always be Mexican food, no matter what the stars, chickens, cheese or incestuous relations foretell. It is known.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

It is known.

 

[Trey Greyjoy]

cheese please!

 

[the smiling weirwood]

No cheese for you!

 

[sophocles]

Werthead has stated it beautifully. It's up in the air right now, and I don't see anything about it happening soon as Westoros is still pretty much in a state of chaos. Winterfell itself is destroyed so the only value would be in the title.

The same could be said of Harrenhal...

Oh it's the Title all right but in Name only.... No one in their rightful mind would ever consider taking permanent residence there .. myself included

 

[JohnSnow]

Just an idea here that was touched upon, may have even been investigated, but in all of the meanderings through Bran's erectile dysfunction, what Littlefinger is doing with his little finger, and Hodor's teletubby theme song I have become a little brain numb...

Someone (probably Boaz, one strike of genious, five of insanity), mentioned that Howland Reed may have spilt the milk about Ned's ******* son's past and parentage.

That made me think about this...
If you were Robb and you thought your wife to be pregnant and knew Sansa to be married to Tyrion, you would want to have someone assume the throne that would be willing to hand it over to your son (hopefully he has a son) when he is of the appropriate age. They would have to be older than Sansa to remove the threat of a Lannister sitting in the rubble of Winterfell. Jon would be willing to hand over the throne becuase of his honour.
If Robb did not have a child, various reasons, he would need more than a "hey my half ******* brother is now a full blooded Stark by king's decree" and that is where Howland Reed come in. If Howland did inform Robb that Jon is the son of R+L then the north/seven kingdoms would be his by a right. Robb knew his mother would drop acid and hijack a busload of zoo animals if she found out, so he dismissed her from the discussion.

Not saying it is right, but it would be an interesting way of revealing who Jon's parents were and where he is headed.

Just a thought...err or 5...

*snow*

 

[TK-421]

Five pages on this topic and it still comes around. Thanks Snow. I think you are probably on to something and explains Robb's actions a little more.

However, when the hell did Howland Reed spill the milk and when the hell did he even appear in any of the books? I need a huge halogen spotlight here...

 

[Werthead]

An interesting idea. However, flawed for the reason that Robb only decided to contact Howland Reed at the very same meeting he signed the decree making Jon his heir. Prior to that, they had no contact. If they had had contact, be sure that GRRM would have dropped some hints to that direction into the story.

Possibly Glover (or was it a Tallheart, I always get those two houses mixed up) or Maege Mormont will get some info from Howland Reed, but that remains to be seen. Unless one of them is the POV prologue character in The Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring, we're not going to find out until after the fact (since GRRM has said that Reed will never be a POV character and after the new POV in ADWD we won't have any more new ones).

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Thanks Snow. I think you are probably on to something and explains Robb's actions a little more.

Ha, at first I thought you were saying he was on something. Perhaps acid, with plans to hijack a busload of zoo animals?

 

[JohnSnow]

Ha, at first I thought you were saying he was on something. Perhaps acid, with plans to hijack a busload of zoo animals?

LOL, I have driven a bus for middle school students in the past, unfortunately no acid or the experience would not have been so frightening!

I only added the Howland Reed suggestion because it would fit well with Robb dismissing his mother after she became too emotional. Robb may have made some political mistakes, however he was fairly astute when it came to reading people and setting events into action that would lead to a favorable outcome.
His final mistake was not in trusting Lord Frey, but in listening to his advisors on how to rectify the "political implications" of his marrying Jeyne Poole.

There is also the possibility that someone else had informed Robb of his "half-brother's" lineage.

All JMHO.
By the way, if Robb had been sitting around drinking ale with me instead of listening to his mother, he would have burnt Old man Frey like so much kindling!

*snow*

 

[the smiling weirwood]

If he had hung around with me I would have beat his horny ass when he married Jeyne. Seriously, that was the stupidest move ever.

 

[JohnSnow]

You are correct, but look at what he was already arranged to marry (nasty Frey girl). Like I said Robb was a gifted military planner but sucked at politics. He assumed that his mistake would have been forgiven easily enough. His ass-umption just about got everyone killed. So, yeah this ranks up there as one of the top 2 or 3 dumbest moves in the series (along with Ned going to King's Landing and Catelyn capturing Tyrion and taking him to the Vale.

The thing that irritates me is that old codger Frey has been harassing folks for a long time and basically held his passageway for ransom against his "king."

Looking at it from that perspective, I would have told Robb to marry Frey's girl, leave her cold in the tallest tower until after the battles, then siege the Twins and do away with the weasel so there is one less person to stab you in the back.

Frey will get his however, I am pretty sure of that. I just hope it is a violent horrible death instead of him having a heart attack and dropping dead....

*snow*

 

[Boaz]

I don't view Ned's trek to KL as a dumb move... the three biggest mistakes he made were at the end of his tenure as Hand. First, warning Cersei was crazy... the old adage "A foe forewarned is a foe forearmed" seems to apply here. Second, dismissing Renly's help was foolish. If Ned had told Renly that Stannis was the true heir, Renly would have helped destroy Cersei and her children because he knew that he would have inherited from Stannis. Third, trusting Baelish's honor to serve him was naive.

And as to the title of the thread... lets assume (yes, I'm going to give some "What If's?" that have no basis in fact... I admit the following is a wild stab in the dark)... let's assume that Maggy is Jeyne Westerling's crazy old grandmother (or great grandmother) from one of the free cities. What if Jeyne and Robb visited her for a prophecy? Who knows what she might have said... she might have said that Bran was still alive and that he'd live to a great age. Then Robb might have named Bran his heir and Brynden might be out questing for Bran. Brynden never married... why? He could not stand the spineless, gossiping, frivolous southern women? Well, what if he fell for Osha? She's a tough as nails northwoman who has an independent spirit.