The Revived Tolkien Trivia

[Grimward]

Eh? Whuzzat? A challenge?

*Wakes with an Eriadorean headach*

 

[Clansman]

That's a big one, to be sure.

 

[Grimward]

The question, or the headache (correctly spelled this time)?

 

[Clansman]

The question, or the headache (correctly spelled this time)?

Both. Look in a less-used source (though perfectly legal, I assure you).

 

[Marky Lazer]

That means it's either The Hobbit or Children of Húrin, because that's the two books I have lend to people, and in the others, there's not a question, I believe.

Are you referring (maybe a hint, eh?) to the difference between The Swanfleet and the Swanfleet River?

 

[Clansman]

A hint? Well, let it be said that no one is perfect, including the great JRRT himself. Sometimes our children are left to correct our mistakes.

And no, it is not The Hobbit or The Children of Hurin. Even less cited than those.

 

[Clansman]

Another hint needed?

 

[Grimward]

'Fraid so.

*Continues bouncing without finding purchase between maps and translations to no avail*

 

[HareBrain]

Well, there is this ...

The Swanfleet question is, why did JRRT seemingly place it against the upper course of the Isen?

The last three of these names ["R. Adorn", "Swanfleet", "R. Glanduin"] were then written into the original map that accompanies the book, but why this was done I have been unable to discover; and while "R. Adorn" is correctly placed, "Swanfleet" and "River Glandin" [sic] are blunderingly placed against the upper course of the Iden.

Unfinished Tales, ch4: The History of Galadriel and Celeborn

But surely, *cough*, it can't be this, because Unfinished Tales is not a legal source? (Which would account for it not being oft cited.)

 

[Clansman]

Well, there is this ...

The Swanfleet question is, why did JRRT seemingly place it against the upper course of the Isen?



Unfinished Tales, ch4: The History of Galadriel and Celeborn

But surely, *cough*, it can't be this, because Unfinished Tales is not a legal source? (Which would account for it not being oft cited.)

The answer is correct, the bell rung, and I thought that UT was a legal source. If I am incorrect, then I stand here ashamed of my temerity. I thought that only The History of Middle Earth was excluded, as it is too arcane and scholarly (and looooooong!). If you check the map of Eriador in FoTR against the map in Unfinished Tales, you will see Swanfleet on the UT map is set in its correct position, just West of the Westfold of Rohan, south of Dunland, instead of smack dab in the middle of Eriador in the FoTR map.

If UT is not a legal source, it should be, because it fills in a lot of blanks in the actual stories of the Second and Third Ages. I thought we had added it, along with Children of Hurin, some time ago?

 

[HareBrain]

I made the same mistake a while back, Clanny. And I would vote for its inclusion as a legal source; I think enough of us have read it to differentiate it from the History (more so maybe than Children of Hurin).

Question coming later ...

 

[Pyan]

As requested, official books allowed in this thread...
The Hobbit
The Lord of the Rings
The Silmarillion
The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
The Children of Hurin

Post #1465, 8th July 2009, 10:59 PM


If anyone wants to include other JRRT books, we can put it to a vote...

 

[HareBrain]

Well, if a proposer is needed, I propose that we allow Unfinished Tales. Do we just vote in this thread, or does someone have to set up a poll?

 

[Pyan]

Lets hear some discussion from the regulars and anyone else who wants a say - if a clear majority are in favour or against, there's no need for a formal poll, IMAO...

 

[The Judge]

Not sure if I count as a regular, but it makes no difference to me as I only have The Hobbit and TLotR, so I sit out on the more arcane questions anyway. But I'm happy for Unfinished Tales to be included, if it adds to everyone else's enjoyment.

J

 

[Grimward]

Hmmm, let's see about our Unfinished Business first:

1. 30 lashes to Clanny with a wet copy of Letters for his temerity;

2. As a rule of protocol, not sure that an invalid question results in the awarding of the floor for a correct answer, HB, but I don't have a problem with it defering to you for the effort ( mighty big of me, I know ). The bell, however, is entirely out of the question (no awards for rules infractions or their consequences, in my opinion).

3. Re Unfinished Tales, I still think we have chapters of stuff that hasn't been touched in the books that are currently allowed. As it has been a VERY long time since I read Unfinished Tales, it might be a good reason to pick it up again. On the other hand, my To-Be-Read Pile doesn't need any encouragement....

Summary: Clanny, shame on you, HB, good effort and please proceed with a legal challenge (deferred as applicable pending the decision on a vote), and Marky, stop grinding your teeth!

 

[Marky Lazer]

We all know my point of view on this. I even think HoME should be included.

 

[Grimward]

I'm up for a vote, and have one concern about expanding beyond Unfinished Tales (which may have already been voiced on previous postings...):

How, if we allow History of Middle Earth, do we keep the challenges from getting so obscure that interested newcomers who've not read these turn away? (Presumption, I name thee Grimward...)

My 1.5 cents: I recommend that we do one book at a time by vote, and would start with Unfinished since we seem to be clustered around that one....

 

[The Judge]

How, if we allow History of Middle Earth, do we keep the challenges from getting so obscure that interested newcomers who've not read these turn away?

Frankly, a lot of the questions are obscure to me anyway, but I've hung around, though it has to be admitted that I was an infrequent dropper-inner until I came up with an answer for the first time.

If there is consensus on opening the field of allowable texts generally, is there perhaps scope for a question every now and then which is designed only for newcomers and only from, say, TLotR? If the question is flagged as such, and no one who has already won a bell can answer it for, say, 5 days after the question is asked, that would give new people a fair chance without it holding up the quiz unduly.** There might also be the prospect of a nice scrabble to be the first to give the answer at the end of the 5 days - like an ebay auction!!

** Even if no newbie comes in on those 5 days, if someone later visits the thread and sees that these kind of questions are raised, it might encourage him/her to visit again to catch another one.

J

 

[Grimward]

I think we're on the same page here, your Honor. There just needs to be a vehicle for those who haven't a clue who Alboin was.....

I lob one up every now and then for this sort of reason, too.

All right, Mr. Moderator and Marky sir, with your permission as the founding fathers, let's put Unfinished Tales to the vote:

*Drops his ballot in the box marked 'Yea, verily'*