SPOILERS: Theory on Jon

well jon's girlfriend who used to say that he know's nothing was sort of described as touched by fire (paraphrasing) because of her red hair and fiery personality. and dany and jon together is not that bad (relatively speaking:) get it. nevermind) tywin lannister married his cousin i think. cersei and jaime have sort provided the really disturbing version of incest. i think there was even a part where viserys said he would have children with dany. if jon and dany are both tarygaryens then the preecedent has been set
 
Thanks for the welcomes!

As for incest, I agree that GRRM has made us a bit more comfortable with it by using Cersei and Jaime, but he has also shown us the problems with it. The Targaryens were a rotten lot towards the end; Aerys was completely demented and cruel. And the product of Cersei and Jaime's union was a completely repugnant Joffrey, and two others who seem to be lacking in the brain department. Aside from all of that, let's be serious- it's disgusting. :eek: I mean, I love my brother, but I don't LOVE my brother. Any feelings that cross that line border on madness.


On a completely different topic- are all of the Stark children, including Jon, wargs? Arya, Bran, and Jon all have wolf dreams. I can't, obviously, speak for Robb, Sansa, or Rickon.
 
AryaUnderfoot said:
On a completely different topic- are all of the Stark children, including Jon, wargs? Arya, Bran, and Jon all have wolf dreams. I can't, obviously, speak for Robb, Sansa, or Rickon.
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I don't know about Robb or Rickon either...but I do believe that all the other's have had the dreams to one degree or another.

You can add my welcome also...I hope you like it here.:)
 
AryaUnderfoot said:
Ok going back to the topic of Jon's parentage, Robert Baratheon would have killed Jon regardless of whether his conception was a product of passion or rape. Either theory works. Ned grieved for Lyanna, yes, but he does not seem like a man to harbor hatred, like Robert, so if Rhaegar had raped Lyanna, Ned probably would have been more bent out of shape about the loss of his sister, and his honorable pledge to protect her son from harm. As far as the rest of it goes, if Ned had so much respect for Rhaegar, I doubt that his honor would have allowed him to support Robert instead of his reigning King and Prince Rhaegar. Ned's respect was more for Arthur Dayne, and not the man he was protecting.

As for Jon and Dany starting a romantic relationship, I really doubt it will happen. Every feeling revolts, as a matter of fact.

Jon is Ice, as a Stark and the Lord Commander of the Night Watch. Daenerys is Fire, as a Targaryen and the Mother of Dragons. Their blood relationship is what ties them together. However, I am thinking that there is one more person who will be included in the grand scheme of things. After all, in "A Clash of Kings," Daenerys hears about the Dragon having three heads, and ponders its meaning repeatedly. My theory is that Jon and Dany are each one head... and who is the third?

I believe Jon will remain in the North as Lord Commander of the Watch, and Daenerys will rule from the South. Perhaps Bran will become the King in the North, and be the third head of the Dragon. After all, each position really must be filled, for the Watch, the crown of the realm, and the King in the North. Before the Targaryens came with their dragons and conquered the Seven Kingdoms, the Starks had ruled the North for thousands of years. Perhaps, in the end, both Starks and Targaryens will rule together, and Jon Snow, Lord Commander, who is of both lines, will be the tie that binds them.

Just my .02......
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You are so far off bro. In the Song of Ice and Fire, Fire is R'hllor and Ice is the Other. Not 2 characters-come on! Don't you see big picture stuff. Martin's clearly striving for the classic good vs. evil.

The dragon with three heads theory you present is quality, and soundly demonstrates your ability to use at least part of your mind. The third head of the dragon could not be more obvious: Patchface.

What a dude!
 
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Hello Hello
my theory as to who is the third head of the dragon: Edric Dayne, Lord of Starfall, squire to Beric Dondarrion.
Two big clues, his conversations with Arya (in her POV chapters) her description of him paints him as so bluntly obviously Targaryen.
If you read the Egg and Dunk novella 'Sword Sword' in Legends II, sifting carefully through the civil war history, I think you will become convinced as I have, that Edric is the last of the line of the Darkfyre Targaryens. House lineage, history, and geography all point in that direction.

(By the way, sorry if I misspelled Darkfyre or got that name wrong, I burrowed the Legends books from a friend and read them a while ago, so I don't have them in front of me for reference, but I know It's the name for the losing side. Well, if you've read it you know what I'm talking about.)
 
N8Smitty, I'd like to come to a draw with you here. Perhaps you're right about the Fire being R'hllor, and the Ice being the Others. However, I don't really see the Fire God as good. To be quite honest, Melisandre really creeps me out. How many good works has she done? In the name of her god, she has aided in the murder of at least two people (still re-reading Storm of Swords, and can't remember if the tally has gone up yet or not). Let's not forget the nasty scene where she births that awful shadow creature beneath the castle. And if the Fire God really represented Good, why would his minions be so underhanded when defeating their enemies? It doesn't smell right at all. In fact, I believe Davos and Maester Cressen have (had?) the right of it in trying to off Melisandre. Yes, she's powerful, but might does not make right.

At any rate, I wandered a bit here- let's just say that Jon/Daenerys AND Others/Rhlorr represent Fire and Ice. It makes it all more interesting anyway. Or we could simply agree to disagree.

As for Patchface, all I have to say is "Hmmmmm.....":rolleyes:
 
AryaUnderfoot said:
N8Smitty, I'd like to come to a draw with you here. Perhaps you're right about the Fire being R'hllor, and the Ice being the Others. However, I don't really see the Fire God as good. To be quite honest, Melisandre really creeps me out. How many good works has she done? In the name of her god, she has aided in the murder of at least two people (still re-reading Storm of Swords, and can't remember if the tally has gone up yet or not). Let's not forget the nasty scene where she births that awful shadow creature beneath the castle. And if the Fire God really represented Good, why would his minions be so underhanded when defeating their enemies? It doesn't smell right at all. In fact, I believe Davos and Maester Cressen have (had?) the right of it in trying to off Melisandre. Yes, she's powerful, but might does not make right.

At any rate, I wandered a bit here- let's just say that Jon/Daenerys AND Others/Rhlorr represent Fire and Ice. It makes it all more interesting anyway. Or we could simply agree to disagree.

As for Patchface, all I have to say is "Hmmmmm.....":rolleyes:
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Arya I would have to disagree with you on this. I don't picture Melisandre as good but I don't necessarily picture Beric Dondarrion as bad. Both are into R'llor. In fact, in this series I don't see anything as one way or the other. It is not a story of good and bad thus far imo.
 
hodor said:
Arya I would have to disagree with you on this. I don't picture Melisandre as good but I don't necessarily picture Beric Dondarrion as bad. Both are into R'llor. In fact, in this series I don't see anything as one way or the other. It is not a story of good and bad thus far imo.
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I don't see Beric Dondarrion as bad, per se, but... I feel like what is dead should stay dead. I myself am probably one of the few who wasn't glad to see Catelyn return. Nonetheless, you have given me a bit to think on, just as n8smitty did. Thanks...
 
Aye, I loved to see the return of Catelyn (even though I never liked her character). Just puts a swing on things doesn't it? I was just stating that in the sense of R'llor Beric is on one side while Melisandre is on the other. In Martin's books he really relishes on this: having good and bad in everything. For instance, the Lanisters, you have Cersei and you have Tyrion and the same goes for the men on the wall and the same goes for R'llor. It's not a clear cut good guy vs bad guy kind of book. In fact it makes the reader think, mainly due to the PoV style, and many times the reader is conflicted. The reader has but one choice: to read on.
 
Hiya Arya,
I didn't like the return of Catelyn either (unless as an Other! woo-hoo!!:))
I find it very interesting though, that both Rh'llor & the Other god (has he got a name??) can both bring the dead back to life - does anyone else find this similarity a bit ominious?
I suppose the main difference appears to be that the ones brought back by the Others seem to be your typical mindless zombies whereas the ones brought by by Thoros seem capable of carrying on their normal lives, though I am a bit amazed that they don't just die from what killed them straight away again!!
I'm presuming that he heals them as well as bringing them back to life! ;)

Personally, to change the subject, I hope the new PoV will be Coldhands! (those will be very short chapters! :D)

Also, does anyone else think that Theon is still alive or is it just me? :confused:
 
Winters_Sorrow said:
Hiya Arya,
I didn't like the return of Catelyn either (unless as an Other! woo-hoo!!:))
I find it very interesting though, that both Rh'llor & the Other god (has he got a name??) can both bring the dead back to life - does anyone else find this similarity a bit ominious?
I suppose the main difference appears to be that the ones brought back by the Others seem to be your typical mindless zombies whereas the ones brought by by Thoros seem capable of carrying on their normal lives, though I am a bit amazed that they don't just die from what killed them straight away again!!
I'm presuming that he heals them as well as bringing them back to life! ;)

Personally, to change the subject, I hope the new PoV will be Coldhands! (those will be very short chapters! :D)

Also, does anyone else think that Theon is still alive or is it just me? :confused:
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Hi there,

I don't think that the Others are unintelligent; they're just lacking in human intelligence, meaning they don't have emotions.

I do think it is ominous that Rh'llor and the Other god bring the dead back to life. Perhaps it is two faces of the same god?

I think Theon is still alive. I think he'll come back into the picture, and probably won't be an agreeable sort either. He may be the Bolton *******'s pawn, for all we know.
On a side note, I can't help but feel that Theon's character really mirrors Joffrey's in some ways. I feel as though Joffrey would have turned out very similarly if he had been fostered by Ned or by Jon Arryn, as Robert wanted.
 
Melisandre is such an interesting character. She does things that seem quite evil...and yet when I read Davos' chapters I get the feeling she isn't evil at all. She just truly believes what she is doing is right. She' going about it in all the wrong ways though.;)

I also don't think the Others are unintelligent...the zombie, black-handed ones are of course. I'm also thinking the new POV will be Sandor...which ought to be quite interesting.

I have a feeling Theon is alive...probably in a bit of pain too.;) I can't wait to see where he turns up.:D
 
AryaUnderfoot said:
N8Smitty, I'd like to come to a draw with you here. Perhaps you're right about the Fire being R'hllor, and the Ice being the Others. However, I don't really see the Fire God as good. To be quite honest, Melisandre really creeps me out. How many good works has she done? In the name of her god, she has aided in the murder of at least two people (still re-reading Storm of Swords, and can't remember if the tally has gone up yet or not). Let's not forget the nasty scene where she births that awful shadow creature beneath the castle. And if the Fire God really represented Good, why would his minions be so underhanded when defeating their enemies? It doesn't smell right at all. In fact, I believe Davos and Maester Cressen have (had?) the right of it in trying to off Melisandre. Yes, she's powerful, but might does not make right.

At any rate, I wandered a bit here- let's just say that Jon/Daenerys AND Others/Rhlorr represent Fire and Ice. It makes it all more interesting anyway. Or we could simply agree to disagree.

As for Patchface, all I have to say is "Hmmmmm.....":rolleyes:
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That's cool. I once thought as you did about Jon and Dany, but if they hook up it would be the song of fire and fire, because jon's a targaryen, clearly. now you awake some new thinking in me. might may not always make right, but fire burns away impurities. could be that rh'llor knows the heart and judges justly?

and hey, watch out shaggydog, or brian and erik will edit you! ba___ard is not a family friendly "almost word." and expressing yourself in this forum to an extent that shows any sense of emotion or passion will be prohibited.
 
n8smitty said:
That's cool. I once thought as you did about Jon and Dany, but if they hook up it would be the song of fire and fire, because jon's a targaryen, clearly. now you awake some new thinking in me. might may not always make right, but fire burns away impurities. could be that rh'llor knows the heart and judges justly?

and hey, watch out shaggydog, or brian and erik will edit you! ba___ard is not a family friendly "almost word." and expressing yourself in this forum to an extent that shows any sense of emotion or passion will be prohibited.
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Actually they are rather good here for administrating. Usually you don't get edited unless you are directly insulting someone or can't seem to find the vocabulary to express yourself without the use of foulness. Should check out the code of conduct thread.
 
I have no problem with expletives. However, when people are abusing others needlessly and without any provocation then we have to edit the posts. This is something which I really hate doing. Sensorship is something with which I am not entirely comfortable. However, I assume you would not say some of those things if the person was standing in front of you.
 
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