SPOILERS: Theory on Jon

[AryaUnderfoot]

She has already proven that she can be this kind of person... a Cersei.

Say what? Where has Sansa proved that she's a Cersei? Cersei currently has more cunning in her entire body than Sansa has in her little finger! (Sansa may catch up eventually). Not to mention, Cersei uses her sexuality, whereas Sansa remains an innocent. Please explain. I'm not technically disagreeing- I'm just wondering what exactly you're talking about...?

 

[hodor]

I meant that she makes decisions that effect many based on herself and what she wants. I don't believe she is a Cersei yet, but I believe she will be. She showed at the Trident in aGoT by lying to her father the king and the queen about what really happened between Joff and Arya. This in turn got her wolf killed.

 

[hodor]

Ooops, and did I forget what she did to her own father? All these things turned out for the wrong for her but it was her own selfishness that drove her to it. If she learns from Littlefinger I believe she will have all she needs to be diabolical.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Ooops, and did I forget what she did to her own father? All these things turned out for the wrong for her but it was her own selfishness that drove her to it. If she learns from Littlefinger I believe she will have all she needs to be diabolical.

Come on now, do you really think Sansa had some devious plot in mind? She is a naive little brat, yes, but I think her reasoning is just faulty. She had trouble seeing the evil in people. Now, she's learning, though.

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree here, Hodor. I honestly don't think Sansa has it in her to be a Cersei- perhaps she'll be able to manipulate, but I don't think it will be for evil. I think in the end she'll use it to save her own a--, and maybe even get Winterfell back.

PS- on another message board, I read a spoiler of Sansa's PoV in FFC. I don't think she'll be Littlefinger's pawn, so much as she'll simply let him think she is.

 

[hodor]

Oh I agree on the pawn thing for sure. It was fairly obvious to Sansa what Littlefinger had done and why. Littlefinger saw Catelyn in Sansa and that's why he worked it out to get her with him. She has now two choices. I believe she will be devious though. She definitely has it in her and more times than not she has proven she only thinks of herself.

I must say it is nice to have another GRRM fan who is rather active here!
Have you perhaps read the Malazan series by Erikson?

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

No, Hodor, I haven't read that series. Tell me more; I'm almost done re-reading Storm of Swords, and after that I'll have to pick up something else or I'll go mad.

Glad you're active too. I think it's because I'm on CA hours, and this site makes a rather interesting diversion from doing any actual work.

 

[hodor]

Well Steven Erikson has an author thread here in this forum and I ordered the books on Amazon.fr (as it is hard to find books in english here for less than 15euros/17usd per book). I haven't read them but I have often heard of them in comparison to Martin. I have read all of Hobb's books and liked them but not as much as ASoIaF. I just finished Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follet (a massive 1000pg historical fiction) and it was absolutely magnificent and the characters were absolutely diabolical.

This forum is great for me mainly because it is in english and I am in France... so most of the english users are on when I am on. You might want to do an amazon search for Malazan book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson or go to his thread and look at the bibliography. I ordered his first four books. I have found I have had to do alot of reading since I have finished A Storm of Swords.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Muchas gracias. I'll look into it. I too have read all of Robin Hobb's books, loved them, but I don't think I could talk endlessly about them on the internet. With GRRM, it's quite easy for me to think of nothing else.

 

[shaggydog]

I was just going through a spanish forum for aSoIaF and I found a crazy theory.
This guy said that he thinks that Tyrion Lannister is not his father's son, but Aerys Targaryen.He would have raped lady joanna in some tourney. Could that be possible? I think not, but there's so much things I missed, it is a book too big to remember every little hint, so I was wondering... they said that was one of the reasons lord tywin joined the rebellion, but it makes no sense, does it? please tell me Tyrion is lord tywin son! all came from a wonder of who would be the third head of the dragon, people around there seem quite convinced of R+L=J, and that he is the 2nd head.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I was just going through a spanish forum for aSoIaF and I found a crazy theory.
This guy said that he thinks that Tyrion Lannister is not his father's son, but Aerys Targaryen.He would have raped lady joanna in some tourney. Could that be possible? I think not, but there's so much things I missed, it is a book too big to remember every little hint, so I was wondering... they said that was one of the reasons lord tywin joined the rebellion, but it makes no sense, does it? please tell me Tyrion is lord tywin son! all came from a wonder of who would be the third head of the dragon, people around there seem quite convinced of R+L=J, and that he is the 2nd head.

I highly doubt that, Shaggydog. After all, one of Tyrion's biggest issues with his family is that he is the bane of his father's existence. Tywin Lannister has even told Tyrion that he prayed that Tyrion was someone else's get. I think it would be too convenient for Tyrion to find out that he's not related to Tywin or Cersei, and there would be too many paralells with the Jon theory, if it is true.

Is it possible that the third head of the Dragon could be of the Baratheon line? After all, their claim to the throne was their Targaryen descent.....

 

[red_temple]

Ya know, I've also heard that rumor as well. I wish I could rememeber the whole theory, but it also had something to do with some things Tyrion said - something about feeling very comfortable in intense heat (much like all the other Targaryens). And there was some evidence, I believe, that Mad King Aerys was hot for Tywin's wife. Couple that with the theory that Tywin loathed Tyrion so much because he could not prove that Tyrion wasn't his son, plus it would be a strike against his manhood to admit his wife cheated on him with the king. This could be a red herring, however. Either that or maybe I just did too many drugs back in the eighties....

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

It's probably the residual drugs... jk. I'll have to think on this one... I personally don't recall reading anything about Aerys being hot for Joanna, but that doesn't mean anything.

 

[shaggydog]

but it would be cool, wouldn't it? Tyrion Targaryen as the third head of the dragon... more reasons for Tyrion meeting Dany in some point of AFFC... and if it is not true... doesn't matter, just food for thought.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

but it would be cool, wouldn't it? Tyrion Targaryen as the third head of the dragon... more reasons for Tyrion meeting Dany in some point of AFFC... and if it is not true... doesn't matter, just food for thought.

I'm wondering if the third head of the Targaryens has to have Targaryen blood anyway. I mean, you'd think Dany would be relieved just to have Jon on her side (assuming, as we do, that they are related). Time to get some fresh blood in the family!

Shaggydog, where is this Spanish forum? I'm quite rusty, but I'd like to read some more opinions, and it seems that all of the forums I'm finding these days are eons behind this one in the theory department.

 

[Blue Mythril]

So then, provided you believe the "Lyanna not raped" theroy, my question remains: who stood to benefit from stirring up that kind of hornet's nest?

I'm going with Varys here

I can't remember Robert actually saying she was raped...did he?

Yup, something along the lines of "how many times do you think he raped her Ned?" in the context of discussing Targaryens. Also Bran mentioned it in the crypt whilst he was with Osha and the Maester.


Oh hodor, you're very harsh on poor Sansa arn't you? I do think she was just a very naive, ver very naive young girl. She sisn't mean what she did, she just had no idea.

I believe she will be devious though.

I'm not so sure, she probably could be, but I think she has already wisened up a bit. She's not as young and susceptible as she once was so i think Petyr would have a lot of trouble moulding her, if thats what he wants anyway.... Sansa also strikes me as being one of those women who are just so touched by a deep sadness, its kinda hard to reach them.

 

[hodor]

The thing is, when you play the game of thrones you play for keeps or you die. Sansa must learn that. When she does...oh boy.

 

[shaggydog]

I'm wondering if the third head of the Targaryens has to have Targaryen blood anyway. I mean, you'd think Dany would be relieved just to have Jon on her side (assuming, as we do, that they are related). Time to get some fresh blood in the family!
Yup, you're right. I always assumed that the three heads had to have Targaryen blood, but probably it is not necessary. anyway, I liked the notion of Tyrion riding a dragon, somehow I see for him something more important than go seeking for Tysha all over the world.

where is this Spanish forum? I'm quite rusty, but I'd like to read some more opinions, and it seems that all of the forums I'm finding these days are eons behind this one in the theory department.
Actually, it is a dead forum , tha last messages are from april 2004, and they are eons behind this one, not only in theory, people keep insulting for a different opinion, so I don't bother u with that one...There's another one quite good, but now they are closing, so you cannot register it is www.cyberdark.net , the fantasia foros, the one related to aSoIaF is La sangre del dragon.

 

[shaggydog]

wow i didnt quote! well, the first and the third paragraphs are originally posted bty AryaUnderfoot (and I definetly agree with Lace, you are stunningly pretty! )

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Thanks, Shaggydog! I'll have some fun reading up on that, regardless of whether or not it's a dead one. At least it will give me a chance to practice my Spanish in an interesting way.

Thanks for the compliment as well. You two know how to make a girl blush.

 

[LadyFel]

BRAINWAVE...(had to announce it, don't get them too often any more )

The two heads of the dragon that Dany needs to find...Jon is still my favourite candidate...But what about a Lannister? She needs people who are strong mentally as well as physically, which doesn't rule out either Jaime or Tyrion...and they don't have to be related to her...

Or...a WOMAN??