Why say Tyrion's a Targ?

[Squire Dalbridge]

I didn't see that idea represented on this thread so I figured it was valid.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Well its actually Jon Snow . But welcome, Squire, and thanks for your input! I can't help but agree with you that Jon is probably the reborn Azor Ahai.

 

[Squire Dalbridge]

Argh! good catch on the spelling. It sure looks like he is but only time will tell.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Hey Squire you should post a hello in the introductions thread! And also in the 'Whose your favourite character from ASOIAF?' thread. In fact just post in every thread ever.

 

[pan naranus]

what?!

All prophecies and omens point Dany as Azor Ahai.
(And this has nothing to do with this thread so...)

 

[TK-421]

...so shut your %#$ face, uncle #&$* ... Sorry, the song just came to me. No offence intended of course.

 

[pan naranus]

Blame Canada?

 

[TK-421]

...and that b*&ch Anne Murray too...

(Way off topic now-see what happens then the discussion goes nowhere)

 

[pan naranus]

fun and interest?

 

[DeannaBelle]

Jon Snow as AA? Well, he did take shots against his loverlike AA did.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

The question is, will Melisandre pick up on this?

 

[pan naranus]

Reading the "Jon" sample chapter in martin's site, she had picked up on this, or at least has plans for Jon. this one ended with the good old "you know nothing Jon snow..." out of her red red lips…

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Creepy! But annoying, I don't want to read any preview chapters!

 

[pan naranus]

Most cases I see your point, but since AFFC and ADWD are essentially one book... no, just kidding my self, it's like a sniff of whisky to an alcoholic.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Hehehe, have you read any of GRRM's other stuff?

 

[pan naranus]

windhaven, fiver dream, tuf, wildcards

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Any/all of them good?

 

[Boaz]

First of all, thanks to TK-421 for helping me find this thread. His memory of these discussions amazes me almost as much as my inability to recall these threads. Thanks again, TK!!

I came across a passage the other day and I wanted to share it with you guys. It's the only thing that even resembles a clue from GRRM to support my idea on how Tyrion could be a Targ. You could read my posts in this thread to get a fuller picture, but I'll give you the highlights here.

Tywin's strength as Hand is so great that many feel he's the real ruler, not Aerys II. Ser Ilyn boasts of this and has his tongue cut out for impertinence, yet Aerys is infuriated because he knows this to be true. Aerys is annoyed by Tywin's offer of Cersei for Rhaegar. Aerys allows Jaime into Kingsguard to further spite Tywin. We know Aerys raped his own sister/wife, Rhella... why should he balk at another woman? Aerys II impregnates Tywin's wife, Joanna. Joanna hides this from Tywin. Mayhaps she took moontea to abort Tyrion... this might explain his disfigurations. Mayhaps Tyrion's malformities can be explained by being an offspring of Targaryen inbreeding. Joanna might have planned to smother Aerys' child at birth, but she died birthing Tyrion. Tywin and Cersei have nothing but contempt for Tyrion his entire life. Tyrion is enamored with Dragons. Aemon Targaryen thinks Tyrion is a giant among men. Tyrion likes fire. Tyrion uses fire to destroy Stannis' fleet.

Okay, here's the passage... It is from the Sansa POV of her wedding to Tyrion. My apologies for the spacing of the lines, I cannot indent here.

Sansa stiffened as his hand touched hers, but the king tightened his grip and drew her closer.

"You shouldn't look so sad. My uncle is an ugly little thing, but you'll still have me."

"You're to marry Margaery!"

"A king can have other women. Whores. My father did. One of the Aegons did too. The third one, or the fourth. He had lots of whores and lots of bastards." As they whirled to the music, Joff gave her a moist kiss.

"My uncle will bring you to my bed whenever I command it."

Sansa shook her head. "He won't."

"He will, or I'll have his head. That King Aegon, he had any woman he wanted, whether they were married or no."

Now the third and fourth Aegons were six and five generations, respectively, before Aerys II. But if Joffrey, two generations after Aerys and of a different dynasty and also a budding psychopath, used the Aegons as inspiration and justification, then don't you think that Aerys would have done the same?

Did GRRM include this passage just to show Joffrey's depravity or is it a clue towards Targaryen bastards?

 

[TK-421]

I'm not sure what I am about to post will add much to this discussion.

Firstly, thank you Boaz for the kind words. I see my sick pleasure in razzing newbies who insist on bringing up long past discussions in new threads came to some good use.

Now, to the subject matter at hand. I am somewhat on the fence on this theory. On the one hand, I see the various arguements put forward to support it and think that many of these are good ones. Tywin's loathing of him, his physical situation, his interest in dragons, his mismatched eyes, etc. On the other hand, there is much evidence to counter this theory and Tyrion's actions and outlook very much indicate that he is a Lannister through and through. For one thing, he repeats that he is true Lannister several times (including in the preview chapter with Illyrio) and what his aunt says to Jaime after they take Riverun that Tyrion is the most like Tywin.

Unfortunately, Boaz my good friend, I cannot see how this passage that you included above helps the theory. I think it just shows Joff's character even more of him wanting to have the whores that his father had but to go a step further and do as a long-time ago Targ once did. Anyways, I need more convincing.

 

[Bayou Boy]

Tywin's strength as Hand is so great that many feel he's the real ruler, not Aerys II. Ser Ilyn boasts of this and has his tongue cut out for impertinence, yet Aerys is infuriated because he knows this to be true. Aerys is annoyed by Tywin's offer of Cersei for Rhaegar. Aerys allows Jaime into Kingsguard to further spite Tywin. We know Aerys raped his own sister/wife, Rhella... why should he balk at another woman?

While we learn in AFFC that Aerys forced himself on Rhaella after burning Chelsted (the mace-and-dagger hand), there's nothing in Jaime's recollection (or anyone else's) to indicate that Aerys II frequented any other bedchambers.

Relations between Aerys and his queen had been strained during the last years of his reign. They slept apart and did their best to avoid each other during the waking hours. But whenever Aerys gave a man to the flames, Queen Rhaella would have a visitor in the night.

While I don't think this paints a pretty picture of the Mad King, I also don't think it provides a clue that Aerys was the type to go after Joanna. Aerys gets turned on whenever he burns someone, and that's the only time he visits Rhaella's bedchamber.

Did GRRM include this passage just to show Joffrey's depravity or is it a clue towards Targaryen bastards?

I'm also going to have to agree with TK-421 that this passage doesn't seem like a breadcrumb supporting a Tyrion-as-Targaryen reveal.

Tyrion, as he says himself, is Lord Tywin writ small. IMO, that's what infuriates Tywin the most.