Honestly, why does George R.R. Martin hate his readers so?

[Tansy]

Probably Goodkind lol

 

[Qhorin Halfhand]

In the sword of truth series, there's a group of hot women who dress in red leather, have sticks that can inflict pain and if you use your magic on them, they CAPTURE YOUR MAGIC or something and you become their slave.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

What nonsense! *scribbles down the name of the series* Yes, utter garbage! *pockets it for later*

 

[Eulalia]

LOL! Here's more of that "garbage".

GRRM recommends the Kushiel series by Jacqueline Carey. It is not for the feint of heart.

If anything in the Ice and Fire series offends you; do not read them; you have been warned, mkay? But you asked for S&M, Tansy! Definitely R rated. Very Open Minded.

I do not endorse or promote all of the activities in those books! Disclaimer brought to you by Eulalia publishing co.

 

[Tansy]

I didn't ask it was HillariousJoke lol

 

[JDP]

I like the fact that you don't know for sure who will make it to the end and who won't, regardless of the character's apparent importance. It means that when you're favourite character is in a precarious situation, you know there's a chance that they won't get out of it alive. For me, this adds a lot of excitement to the story. It can be a bit dull when you just know that a character is effectively invincible because they're one of the main protagonists.

 

[TK-421]

Yes, I did mean that hack, Goodkind. No series is complete without both S&M and evil chickens. As the British would say: Rubbish!!!!

Thank goodness, GRRM does not include either.

 

[Eulalia]

Oh gosh, sorry Tansy! Apologies to Mr. Joke.

Can one edit these posts once they are up?

It's curious that the hideously maimed include the characters that are already burdened by not fitting in. It would be strange if they ended up with Sansa and Jaime (though the hand counts, I suppose) who have other problems but are considered attractive. It would be funny if Jaime ends up as "The Hand".

 

[Tansy]

That's ok I've read Goodkind

I'm not easily shocked or embarrassed

 

[Skyswine]

Boaz is correct. There is a gritty reality to these books. I'd been away from fantasy for years, and started this series on a high recommendation from a friend. The minute I turned to the page where Ned meets his fate, I was forever hooked. The continuing demise of other characters (lovable characters at that) creates a gritty realistic world that breaks from the general grind of fantasy stories. I became so jaded with fantasy; predictable plots, main characters that appear to die at the end of a chapter only to miraculously save themselves the next, etc. I also completely dig that with Martin, you don't know if he is giving you details about some object, character, or history because it may be important to the story line, or like life, there are just endless colorful details. In most cheesy movies, where there is a closeup shot of a letter opener (fill in the blank) in the first five minutes of the movie, you just know that letter opener is going to be used to off the bad-guy in the last five minutes of the film. Not with Martin, you just never know, so when it looks bad for one of the your favorite characters, you actually sweat for them.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I loved the Kushiel series. Exactly my kind of thing. Next to GRRM's work they are some of my favorite stories.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Has anyone read Jennifer Fallon's Hythrun Chronicles? One might think she also 'hates her readers' in a similar vein.

 

[Eulalia]

Same with me, TSW, Kushiel is my second fav.

Thanks also for you suggestion of Jennifer Fallon, HJ, I'm always hoping for recommendations.

In a more Romantic style, I quite liked Guy Gavriel Kaye's Fionavar Tapestry
series, also Sailing to Sarentum, Tigana, The Lion's of Al Rassan, and the Song of Arbonne.

And in a more traditional style again I liked the Tad Williams series of Thorn and Memory, Both authors are more pg-13.

 

[Shacklock]

Heres an idea, people die in Song of Ice and Fire beacuse THERES A CIVIL WAR GOING ON!
Beyond that, I'm firmly on the side of yay gritty death and realism over rawr shiny knigtht rides into an army alone and saves the day with a ******** tactic that wouldent work in real life, hehe. With the vast majority of Novels the main character is assured to live, sure maybe one or two really obvious sidekicks will pop their clogs but noone you care about. In my opinion Harry Potter would have been somuch better without the cheesy "Everyone lives happily ever after" ending. If I had my way Voldamort would have won But then I just have a thing for rooting for the bad guys xD
Oh and long time no post, aaanyone miss me?

 

[Boaz]

Heres an idea, people die in Song of Ice and Fire beacuse THERES A CIVIL WAR GOING ON! ...Oh and long time no post, aaanyone miss me?

I missed the oh, so subtle ways that you make your point. Welcome back, Shack.

 

[Shacklock]

I missed the oh, so subtle ways that you make your point. Welcome back, Shack.

Oh i'm capable of great subtly *grin* I just prefer to be blunt and honest. Hehe and thanks.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

I like the point you make Shacklock (except the Voldemort bit you evil nutcase). I get really annoyed at overpowered characters in fantasy books, and the unrealistic idea that the main characters never die even though people around them drop like flies.

Well met, and welcome back.

 

[TK-421]

Came across this in the Wiki article on ASOIAF:

"The series is told in the limited third-person through the eyes of a number of POV characters. By the end of the fourth volume, there have been twenty-five such characters, although these include four prologue and one epilogue characters who only appear once apiece. Martin is noted for his ruthlessness towards his characters. By the end of the fourth volume eight of the POV characters have been killed."

The 25 would be:
Eddard
Catelyn
Tyrion
Jaime
Bran
Arya
Sansa/Alayne
Jon
Deanerys
Davos
Theon
Samwell
Brienne
Cersei
Asha
Arianne
Victarion
Aeron the Damphair
Arys Oakheart
Areo Hotah (Captain of Guard to Doran Martell)
Will (of the Night's Watch)
Maester Cressen of Dragonstone
Chett (of the Night's Watch)
Merrett Frey
Pate (in Oldtown)

The 8 killed off:
Eddard
Catelyn
Arys Oakheart
Will
Chett
Merrett Frey
Pate
Theon (assumed dead)

*SPOILERS*

And with ADWD, he will add:
Quentyn
Theon (not dead after all)
Varamyr Sixskins
and either Melissandre, Loras or Sandor

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I wonder how drastic the damage Loras suffered is. Will he be permanently disfigured, do you think? Maybe he will gain some measure of humility, like Jaime.

Although I am thinking that George would not write the same story twice, so perhaps not.

Sandor would be an interesting character to see from inside of.

Melissandre knows far too much, I do not think we will see her PoV.

 

[Boaz]

I wonder how drastic the damage Loras suffered is. Will he be permanently disfigured, do you think? Maybe he will gain some measure of humility, like Jaime.

Although I am thinking that George would not write the same story twice, so perhaps not.

Well, Jaime is mirrored by Lancel. Lancel wanted to be Jaime so bad that he ended up in Cersei's bed. Both Jaime and Lancel were seriously wounded and both have developed conscienses... Lancel's seems to have gone to an extreme. Could Loras be the third member of this fraternity? Mayhaps.

Sandor would be an interesting character to see from inside of.

Sure, but I enjoy reading into his heart and mind from Sansa's and Arya's POVs.

Melissandre knows far too much, I do not think we will see her PoV.

Agreed.