Most Hated (Major) Character

[Wiggum]

I really like the idea of Howland being her "savior" as you put it Boaz.

That would be interesting indeed, but it would mean a clash between Reed and Baelish. Which.........I would relish, whomever came out the victor.

That has the possibility of being better than The Viper and The Mountain, although it would be fought in different martial environs, and a little more lengthy.

I love that idea.

 

[viZion]

I'm not sure why Howland Reed's name keeps coming up so often lately. He's essentially been a non-factor throughout the entire series outside of a few flashbacks. I personally don't see him finally being introduced later on the in the series especially since Sansa's rescue or whatever probably won't happen until book 6 at the earliest. Throwing in yet another character so late in the series would be a very Jordanesque move (hell, I'm already annoyed by Quenten being thrown in so late). There would also be a deus ex machina factor in having Reed save Sansa. Just don't see it happening .

 

[mercymydarling]

I'm genuinely surprised that so many people voted for Stannis, while NO ONE voted for Tywin. Granted, I don't like either character, but Tywin is, in my humble opinion, a way bigger douche than Stannis. Stannis is doing everything he can because he thinks honor commands it... he doesn't want the kingdom, but it is, technically, his, so he has to take it. And he shows (rarely, I know) bits of humanity... lingering on Renly and his peach, delaying the red woman from killing Edric Storm, etc. Tywin doesn't even show humanity when his life is quite literally on the line, and he proved more devious than Stannis ever could be with his (however minor) involvement in the Red Wedding.

Personally, my vote was for Walder, but only because of Robb. Cat is sort of an iffy character for me... I understand her motivations, but nothing in this world or Westeros could make me like her after her hissing "It should've been you" to Jon while at Bran's sickbed. That just made her intensely unlikeable. Robb, on the other hand, was sort of the tragic hero... you knew he was going to fall, but that didn't make it any less horrible and sad. He was a good king, especially for his age, and a good person to boot. Frey killing him, and killing his guests despite their guest right, was possibly the most outrageous thing any of the characters had done, to boot, including Jaime throwing Bran out the window and unCat "hanging" Brienne.

...didn't mean to ramble, sorry. *blushes*

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Not a ramble! Thanks for your insights!

I agree, Tywin is a much worse person than Stannis. And I forgot about Catelyn doing that, though I did dislike her already.

 

[Eulalia]

After the next book, this may need an update to include, let's say, Ramsay Bolton.

 

[Bayou Boy]

I voted for Joffrey. No redeeming qualities whatsoever. He was, IMO, a wholly unsympathetic character who combined cowardice and stupidity with a complete lack of empathy.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Oh no no, Stannis wants it more than anything. He just uses honor and law as an excuse because he refuses to acknowledge his brother's conquest as the usurpation it was. He is a petulant child. He wants to be king because he wants to be better than his brothers. He's a horrible, shallow, iron-jawed idiot and I hope he burns.

 

[ratsy]

I think there's a limit to how many choices you can include in the poll. I don't mind Littlefinger but I probably would have put him in the poll instead of Jorah. I bet there are a lot of Littlefinger haters out there. Personally, I gotta go with Walder Frey.

Personally, I like Littlefinger more than most of the characters

 

[slik_rik]

Littlefinger has to remain a little longer at least to educate Sansa and cover some backstory. He also has to stay cos just like Cersei I love to hate him and she better be in a majority of book 6 so I can continue hating on her. If she's not in book seven then thats ok but i'd rather see her freeze at the wall and suffer by the hands of Jon/the Stark kiddies and Dany before she's removed fro mthe story. I just love to hate her WAAY too much for GRRM to waste her quickly

 

[mercymydarling]

I'm under the impression that only men are sent to the Wall, though how funny would that **** be, Cersei being forced to work to defend the realm that she actually doesn't care about at all?

I don't think she should die yet, though. With Tywin dead, Tyrion on his way to Dany, and Jaime trying to redeem himself, Cersei is the only one who would really successfully answer to Dany if stops taking her sweet time to come to Westeros. It would be a shame for Dany to come all that way and have... Tommen waiting for her. He'd be all, "Oh, dragons, here, look, I have kitties!" and she might get confused. *g*

 

[Eulalia]

lol re: kitties!

mmd, I had a wild theory that Cersei would be forced to be a silent sister to keep her under the radar for a book or two. The irony would be too delicious.

There would be time then, to develop the Tyrells, though I don't know how they fit in.

I agree there needs to be some sort of adversary for Dany. Cersei, Stannis/Melisandre (can't see them on the throne at the end), Ramsay Bolton who is marrying a fake Stark. Littlefinger with Sansa? Reluctant Jaime? Walder? Evil Loras? Uncat? Bronn? Pod?

 

[the smiling weirwood]

The obvious answer is Hot Pie.

 

[Raven]

Stannis is doing everything he can because he thinks honor commands it... he doesn't want the kingdom, but it is, technically, his, so he has to take it.

On the subject of not wanting the throne, I sometimes think Stannis doth protest too much. He shows every sign of wanting the throne and has gone way beyond the requirements of duty and honour in trying to get it. His statements on the issue don't display any real reluctance or sense that he would rather not be King. I think he does want it. He certainly feels entitled to it, which is very different from feeling that he 'has to take it'.

I'd agree he's still a lot better human being than Tywin, though. Like you, I'm very surprised he doesn't have more votes. He organised the gang-rape of his daughter-in-law!

 

[mercymydarling]

He shows every sign of wanting the throne and has gone way beyond the requirements of duty and honour in trying to get it.

I disagree with this statement, not the post: because, he IS, once you discount the Targs, the rightful king. After Robert's death, the throne by all rights SHOULD have passed to Stannis, and I don't think one can go beyond the requirements of duty to claim what is rightfully his, especially considering the Lannisters. I think one of the reasons Stannis struggles so hard to get the throne is simply because Joffrey sits it, and he knows what Joffrey is, knows both his cruelty and his lineage, and knows that his rightful kingdom will suffer if he doesn't stop it.


Of course, I might be giving Stannis too much credit, but it's how I understand things. Hmm.

 

[Bayou Boy]

I disagree with this statement, not the post: because, he IS, once you discount the Targs, the rightful king. After Robert's death, the throne by all rights SHOULD have passed to Stannis, and I don't think one can go beyond the requirements of duty to claim what is rightfully his, especially considering the Lannisters. I think one of the reasons Stannis struggles so hard to get the throne is simply because Joffrey sits it, and he knows what Joffrey is, knows both his cruelty and his lineage, and knows that his rightful kingdom will suffer if he doesn't stop it.


Of course, I might be giving Stannis too much credit, but it's how I understand things. Hmm.

I agree with you. If anything, I think it would be more accurate to say that, for the most part, Stannis has carried his sense of duty and honor well past the point of wisdom.

I don't think a desire for the throne is his primary motivation.

 

[Raven]

I don't think one can go beyond the requirements of duty to claim what is rightfully his

So rightful ends justify any means? Melisandre and her shadowbabies included?

I think one of the reasons Stannis struggles so hard to get the throne is simply because Joffrey sits it, and he knows what Joffrey is, knows both his cruelty and his lineage, and knows that his rightful kingdom will suffer if he doesn't stop it.

I think you are indeed giving Stannis too much credit. He refused to ally with others against Joffrey, and chose to fight Renly first instead of the Lannisters. That doesn't suggest that depriving Joffrey of the throne was an overriding motivation.

I'd certainly agree with Bayou Boy that Stannis has gone well past the point of wisdom. I'd also point out that when faced with the choice of supporting the rightful King past the point of wisdom and over loyalty to his brother before, he proved perfectly capable of making the right choice. Is the fact that he, and not Aerys, now happens to be that 'rightful King' really just happenstance?

(Of course, the argument can be advanced that Aerys, like Joff, was a monster. But Stannis also chose to support Robert over Aerys' heirs, and he himself is quite clear that he supported Robert purely because he was family.)

Myself, I think Stannis uses this 'I'm only doing it because it's my duty' stuff as a rationalisation. He might even have persuaded himself it's true... mostly, anyway.

 

[Eulalia]

Maybe Stannis and Melisandre will end up being the adversaries for Dany, somehow. They both appear to be on the side of "fire" so what's up with that.

If this book was classically religious, though, I would say Stannis has sold his soul. He does not seem only a free agent and seems heavily under the influence of Melisandre (whatever the heck she is up to). She had to take some of his spirit to kill his own flamboyant brother; who cares what the justification is. Then there is much talk of sacrificing and king's blood. Yeash.

It's pretty hard to like Stannis, at the best of times. Is he ever shown being warm? Certainly his lack of common touch is relfected in that.

He doesn't seem like the worst of the worst yet. Afterall, he left Davos mostly whole. Generous.

 

[mercymydarling]

So rightful ends justify any means? Melisandre and her shadowbabies included?

Does Stannis know about the shadowbabies? I don't think he does, but I might be mistaken.

I think you are indeed giving Stannis too much credit. He refused to ally with others against Joffrey, and chose to fight Renly first instead of the Lannisters. That doesn't suggest that depriving Joffrey of the throne was an overriding motivation.

Well, Stannis saw Renly as a usurper as well... and honestly, he was. He wanted to be king, so he just... made himself king... possibly being the only one who knew he had no real claim and didn't care. And from what I understand, Stannis marched on Renly first because he needed Renly's men, not because de-throning Joffrey was less important.

Myself, I think Stannis uses this 'I'm only doing it because it's my duty' stuff as a rationalisation. He might even have persuaded himself it's true... mostly, anyway.

Oh, I quite agree with you here. The only reason I stick with "duty" is because that is what I honestly believe Stannis thinks... I never meant to imply he was right, nor even that he honestly believed in his own claim. I understand that he does want to be king, and he'll do anything he can to make it so... I just remain convinced that he honestly doesn't realize he wants it. *g*

Man, I can't believe I even started defending Stannis. He annoys the f out of me. Though I will give him credit where credit is due: he was the only one of the kings to give aid to the Wall, even if he wanted something for it.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Oh, I quite agree with you here. The only reason I stick with "duty" is because that is what I honestly believe Stannis thinks... I never meant to imply he was right, nor even that he honestly believed in his own claim. I understand that he does want to be king, and he'll do anything he can to make it so... I just remain convinced that he honestly doesn't realize he wants it.

I'll take up Stannis' cause (even though I don't like him much either). I think everything he's done points towards his sense of strict justice except sanctioning Melisandre's killing of Renly.

 

[TK-421]

Some justice that is, allowing your own brother to be killed for the sake of power. How easy to morph justice into hypocrisy. As they say: "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."